# What is the value of a "Secret Society"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 8, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109 "2015-02-08T12:44:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/1 "2015-02-08T12:44:48Z")
It’s straight up. I know of groups like the Masons which are sort of secret - meaning their rights and initiations at the upper levels are secret. I knew of a person who said he couldnt even tell his wife what they do at meetings. Their is the famous “Skull and Bones” society at Yale. So I’d like to ask - Have you heard of or known anyone in a “secret” organization? Why would an organization want to keep itself “secret”? What would be the value to members? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/2 "2015-02-08T12:56:35Z")
Well, you can’t very well control the British crown, keep the metric system down, keep Atlantis off the maps and the Martians under wraps, hold back the electric car, make Steve Gutenberg a star, rob cavefish of their sight, and rig every Oscar night if your meetings are open to the public, now can you? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/3 "2015-02-08T12:57:51Z")
If you knew then you would know. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/4 "2015-02-08T13:34:00Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > It’s straight up. I know of groups like the Masons which are sort of secret - meaning their rights and initiations at the upper levels are secret. I knew of a person who said he couldnt even tell his wife what they do at meetings. Their is the famous “Skull and Bones” society at Yale. > > So I’d like to ask - > > Have you heard of or known anyone in a “secret” organization? > > Why would an organization want to keep itself “secret”? > > What would be the value to members? First off: The correct spellings are _rites_ and _there_. Next: The Masonic rites, from initiation on are not open to the public. Third: I’m a DeMolay as are all my brothers, I’m also a Sir Knight, my sister is a Job’s Daughter, my mother is a member of Eastern Star, and my father is a Mason (Blue Lodge, Scottish Rite, and a couple of other Masonic bodies). I’m also an Ordeal member of the Order of the Arrow of the BSA. Fourth: The organization you mentioned and the ones I mentioned along with many other fraternal societies have no intention now nor have they ever had any such intention of being secret. The groups are well known, their meeting halls are clearly identified as such, and the groups form a variety community service endeavors. What they do have, though, is private initiations and ceremonies not open to the public. In other words: “members only rituals”. They’re innocent recitations, meant to instruct the members in the basics of whatever ideal or ideals are at the center of the particular group’s stated purpose. Why have such secrets? The simple answer is that when these groups were established, such things were a draw, a good recruiting tool. The groups are still using those ceremonies because they help define the groups’ tradition and tradition still manages to be a draw. Fifth: The Skull & Bones Society isn’t much different today, AFAIK, than any of the other fraternities. Conspiracy theories about them have about as much value as those about the attack on Pearl Harbor or 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/5 "2015-02-08T13:39:11Z")
The immense pleasure of being part of an elite, privy to arcane knowledge undreamt of by the profane herd. Apart from being as excluded as they from all the secret societies of which one is not a member, who can equally scorn you. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/6 "2015-02-08T14:00:53Z")
My late father was a 32nd degree Mason. He never talked with his kids about it. We have a large glossy photo of him in a sea of Masons at a 1947 state convention. Our mother told us that he joined for what we’d today call networking. He was an immigrant who owned a diner in a small West Virginia town, and presumably made business contacts he otherwise wouldn’t have by joining the lodge. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/7 "2015-02-08T17:38:01Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > It’s straight up. I know of groups like the Masons which are sort of secret - meaning their rights and initiations at the upper levels are secret. > [@Monty](#): > > First off: The correct spellings are _rites_ and _there_. Correct for the first, incorrect for the second. The OP should be using the word “rites”, but is correct in his use of the possessive “their”. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/8 "2015-02-08T17:51:30Z")
You can learn [how a carburetor works](http://assets.amuniversal.com/eef10470deba01317193005056a9545d). ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/9 "2015-02-08T18:17:45Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Their is the famous “Skull and Bones” society at Yale. > [@Canadjun](#): > > The OP should be using the word “rites”, but is correct in his use of the possessive “their”. Erm, no. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/10 "2015-02-08T18:35:50Z")
Yes they are not secret organizations. They are organizations with secrets. By knowing the secrets of an organization you can prove to others that you are a member of the organization and are entitled to be treated as a member. As we have people claiming to be former service members and wanting to have the benefits of a veteran people will claim to be a member of an organization for their benefit. It is simple to test someone to see if they are truly a member or not. When my Dad a Mason was shipping and in a foreign country where he did not know anyone it was not hard to find a fellow Mason. A brother a friend someone to have some fellowship with. In a strange port he was not a stranger. That was one of the many advantages. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/11 "2015-02-08T18:55:00Z")
You can buy books on the secret rituals of Masons and what Skull and Bones do. The Masons are a service organization that network and do good deeds and have funny rituals. Skull and Bones is a debating society at Yale that have funny rituals. In 2004, both the Republican and Democratic candidates for President, Bush and Kerry, were Skull and Bones members. I was not impressed with either of their debating skills. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/12 "2015-02-08T19:00:22Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Have you heard of or known anyone in a “secret” organization? > > Why would an organization want to keep itself “secret”? > > What would be the value to members? 1. Me. 2. It adds to the mystique and to some degree the fun. 3. It depends. Some business owners really do get a boost from membership in the various “clubs” But mostly its more personal – a connection to the past (several ancestors were members) and the present (friends I’ve made through the organization). It also has a strong feeling of community missing from most neighborhoods and small towns today. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/13 "2015-02-08T19:26:18Z")
There’s been a lot of leakage. People have written books giving away all the Masonic secrets. Heck, some of their ceremonies have been televised. The Scientologists tried to keep their big secret from the world – even to the point of trying to sue someone who wrote about it. They lost the case. Secret societies are at a severe disadvantage in the information age. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/14 "2015-02-08T19:40:53Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Their is the famous “Skull and Bones” society at Yale. The fact that you describe Skull and Bones as “famous” belies the idea that it’s a secret society. It’s one of about ten “secret” societies at Yale, but no one develops conspiracy theories around the others. (Of course the ones holding the _real_ power are The Whiffenpoofs. Why do you think they spend all that time touring?) ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/15 "2015-02-08T19:45:08Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > Correct for the first, incorrect for the second. The OP should be using the word “rites”, but is correct in his use of the possessive “their”. The second their should be there. **There** is the famous “Skull and Bones” society at Yale. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/16 "2015-02-08T19:48:14Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Erm, no. Would you care to explain? The OP says, in part “…meaning their rights and initiations at the upper levels are secret…”. “Their” is being used in its possessive sense, so it is correct. As to “rights” I assumed the OP meant ceremonies, which is “rites”. If the OP meant what they are allowed to do, then I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/17 "2015-02-08T19:51:17Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > Would you care to explain? . You stated that the OP’s use of “their” was correct. It isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/18 "2015-02-08T19:54:27Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > You stated that the OP’s use of “their” was correct. It isn’t. What do you propose substituting for it? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/19 "2015-02-08T20:01:47Z")
More society for me, none for you. Profit! ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109/20 "2015-02-08T20:03:32Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > Would you care to explain? The OP says, in part “…meaning their rights and initiations at the upper levels are secret…”. “Their” is being used in its possessive sense, so it is correct. As to “rights” I assumed the OP meant ceremonies, which is “rites”. If the OP meant what they are allowed to do, then I stand corrected. Read the OP again. Both there and their are used (or intended to be used). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-value-of-a-secret-society/712109.md?page=2)