# What is the word clerics use to discount reason? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 29, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-clerics-use-to-discount-reason/773407 "2016-11-29T20:51:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-clerics-use-to-discount-reason/773407/61 "2016-12-06T00:29:58Z")
> [@jacobson](#): > > In order to exist anything must be in existence. If God is nowhere or any where it isn’t rational; all that exists is in existence. But “in existence” does not mean in a particlar place, or in an unspecified place; it just means having a particular quality or characteristic, viz, the quality of existing. Your original question (“If God is a being then he would first need a place in which to exist. Who or what created that?”) assumes that all things which exist do so in a particular place, which in turn assumes ( think) that all existing things are material and are limited by the characteristics of materiality. But there is no evidence that this is so, and no reason - other, ironically, than faith - to make this assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-clerics-use-to-discount-reason/773407/62 "2016-12-06T01:10:47Z")
Chinatown? ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-clerics-use-to-discount-reason/773407/63 "2016-12-06T01:39:58Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#): > > There’s a word that’s commonly used by religious people that basically means religion (or God) is not subject to logical scrutiny. > > You point out a logical problem, for instance, and they say, “That’s just X” - which basically means reason can’t be used to understand God. Sophistry? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-clerics-use-to-discount-reason/773407/64 "2016-12-06T01:58:00Z")
> [@Number](#): > > Chinatown? Forget it, Jake! ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-clerics-use-to-discount-reason/773407/65 "2016-12-06T12:58:35Z")
According to that fount of all spiritual knowledge, “Father Ted”, the best answer to any tricky theological question is “That would be an ecumenical matter”\* \*8:46 into [this](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3om5qz) ---
**Author:** ![Ornery\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/da6949/32.png) [@Ornery\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ornery_Bob)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-clerics-use-to-discount-reason/773407/66 "2016-12-08T00:33:08Z")
> [@Saltire](#): > > Sophistry? We have a winner! I can see now that my description was off, but the vibe was right. Any attempt to point out logical inconsistencies was immediately branded as sophistry. I believe the reasoning was it’s automatically disingenuous to use logic to refute that which you should know is beyond logic. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-clerics-use-to-discount-reason/773407/67 "2016-12-08T01:42:15Z")
My resident theologian is appalled at your nuns’ misuse of the arcana of religious terminology. But not surprised; nuns be evil in groups. Whatever your arguments were, sophistry they (probably) weren’t. Glad that we could collectively get to the bottom of your question. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-clerics-use-to-discount-reason/773407/68 "2016-12-08T18:12:55Z")
> [@Ornery\_Bob](#): > > We have a winner! > > I can see now that my description was off, but the vibe was right. > > Any attempt to point out logical inconsistencies was immediately branded as sophistry. I believe the reasoning was it’s automatically disingenuous to use logic to refute that which you should know is beyond logic. I’d be inclined to quote prominent philosopher [Inigo Montoya](http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/you-keep-using-that-word-i-do-not-think-it-means-what-you-think-it-means) on this, tbh. (Not necessarily blaming you; you’re just conveying the misuse of a specific word by another.) Sophistry is simply using unsound but plausible- and clever-sounding arguments. Calling fact-based arguments sophistic begs the question significantly, and would actually be applicable to any counter-argument to their blindly-held position. If that’s sophistry, so is 90% of GD and 85% of IMHO on this board. “Sophistry” is not supposed to be a one-word condensation of “you’re wrong because STFU”. If your correspondent was using it that way, that’s to their fault, and not to any reasonable definition of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-clerics-use-to-discount-reason/773407/69 "2016-12-08T21:56:47Z")
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