# What is the word for the male equivalent of a "fag hag?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 30, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756 "2012-06-30T00:30:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/41 "2012-06-30T21:59:27Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > IME, a portion of the women whom it used to be OK to call fag hags are so because, at least in part, gay men are safe. A man might hang with lesbians for the same reason, but be less likely to admit it. I gather you mean “safe” in regards to our relationship not involving sex or the possibility of sex between us, which can take the pressure off in some ways. We can be friends without the added concern, and also I found myself having much in common with a person who just happened to be gay (in my case a man), and then we became more a part of each other’s community as the years went by. I have not been called a fag hag to my face. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/42 "2012-06-30T22:02:41Z")
No word is a slur, or offensive, in and of itself. Words are only slurs if and when they are used with the intent to denigrate, and are only offensive if and when they actually offend someone. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/43 "2012-06-30T22:24:11Z")
I don’t think I’ve seen it in this thread, but what is a gay woman who likes to hang out with straight men called? There are 4-5 guys who go to lunch most every day and one of our group is also a gay woman. Is there a name for her or for the guys? I can say that it makes for some interesting lunch conversations. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/44 "2012-06-30T23:26:39Z")
I just found this, which is food for thought but not etymologically significant (I think), although post-modernism can make anything dispositive. In England, according to Wiki, a mixed bachelorette party is sometimes called [_a stag and doe party, also called a “Jack and Jill”, “buck and doe” or “hag” (hen + stag) party, is a similar party that includes men and women. It may combine aspects of a drinking game with fundraising._](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelorette_party) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/45 "2012-06-30T23:38:16Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > I live in a town that’s something of a lesbian mecca… Holy cats! Gotta ask my friends where that is, if they know. I’m packing my bags already. Thing is, my wife likes it here in NY, unless you were referring to NY in the first place.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/46 "2012-06-30T23:57:48Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > No word is a slur, or offensive, in and of itself. Words are only slurs if and when they are used with the intent to denigrate, and are only offensive if and when they actually offend someone. You can make up your own definitions for words if you like but under the real definition of slur, “fag” unquestionably qualifies. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/47 "2012-06-30T23:58:27Z")
> [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > I don’t think I’ve seen it in this thread, but what is a gay woman who likes to hang out with straight men called? There are 4-5 guys who go to lunch most every day and one of our group is also a gay woman. > > Is there a name for her or for the guys? I can say that it makes for some interesting lunch conversations. Might as well ask for all the pairings. The ones that are left are [ul] [li]gay guy who likes hanging out with straight women[/li][li]gay guy who likes hanging out with straight men[/li][li]gay guy who likes hanging out with lesbians[/li][li]lesbian who likes hanging out with straight women[/li][li]lesbian who likes hanging out with gay guys[/li][li]straight woman who likes to hang out with lesbians[/li][/ul] And, if you want to include the ones that are so common they might not have separate names, you have [ul] [li]gay guy who likes to hang out with other gay guys[/li][li]lesbian who likes to hang out with other lesbians[/li][li]straight guy who likes to hang out with straight women[/li][li]straight guy who likes to hang out with other straight guys[/li][li]straight woman who likes to hang out with other straight women [/li][li]straight woman who likes to hang out with straight men[/li][/ul] I’d throw in the genderqueer, asexuals, and trans people and get more combinations, but the first two are so rare and asking about the latter might be offensive as it implies that trans people see themselves as different from cisgendered people. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/48 "2012-07-01T00:01:35Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > You can make up your own definitions for words if you like but under the real definition of slur, “fag” unquestionably qualifies. Well, I guess people better tell British people to stop smoking their fags then. He’s not making up definitions–he’s telling you how English (and language in general) works. Just because a word is offensive in one context doesn’t mean it is in others. If you want to get offended by people who are not trying to offend you, that’s your prerogative, but be sure to realize it’s your choice and not theirs. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/49 "2012-07-01T00:16:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Well, I guess people better tell British people to stop smoking their fags then. You ought to go back to your elementary school and slap every one of your teachers in the face for apparently never teaching you the concept of a “homonym”. > [@](#): > > He’s not making up definitions–he’s telling you how English (and language in general) works. No. He’s stating an ill-conceived opinion, disguised as a completely erroneous “fact” about what constitutes a slur. The word “fag” is a slur. You can argue otherwise, as he did, by making up your own special new definition for the word ‘slur’, but under the actual, real-life definition, it’s factually false to claim that “fag”, used in reference to a gay man, is not, in itself, a slur. > [@](#): > > Just because a word is offensive in one context doesn’t mean it is in others. If you want to get offended by people who are not trying to offend you, that’s your prerogative, but be sure to realize it’s your choice and not theirs. Not sure what this bit of moral guidance is for – it’s obviously off-topic, because it has no bearing on the factual statement that the word “fag”, when used in reference to a gay man, is, strictly factually, a slur. No amount of rhetoric changes this fact. Perhaps you didn’t notice what forum you’re posting in but this forum is meant for discussions of facts. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/50 "2012-07-01T00:37:10Z")
Hey guys, did you know that if you repeated qm opinion over and over, in the face of evidence to the contrqry, it makes it a fact and everyone that disagrees an idiot? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/51 "2012-07-01T01:34:39Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > You ought to go back to your elementary school and slap every one of your teachers in the face for apparently never teaching you the concept of a “homonym”. Not good enough. As you know, if anyone, anywhere, can even hypothetically be offended by a word, no matter what the context or intended meaning, then we should not use that word. For instance, the word niggardly must be banned for obvious reasons. > [@mister\_nyx](#): > > No amount of rhetoric changes this fact. Perhaps you didn’t notice what forum you’re posting in but this forum is meant for discussions of facts. Just to be clear, would you claim that the word \*nigger \*is a slur when used by black musicians? Perhaps you can point us to the definition that applies here. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/52 "2012-07-01T02:26:31Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Not good enough. As you know, if anyone, anywhere, can even hypothetically be offended by a word, no matter what the context or intended meaning, then we should not use that word. For instance, the word niggardly must be banned for obvious reasons. I have no idea what you’re talking about. Again, it’s a factual statement that the word “fag” (when used to refer to gay men, not cigarettes :rolleyes:) is a slur. None of what you’re saying here about banning words or how anyone might hypothetically be offended by any word has anything to do with the relatively simple factual statement I made. Nor does it really have to do with factual discussions of anything. > [@](#): > > Just to be clear, would you claim that the word \*nigger \*is a slur when used by black musicians? The word “nigger” is a slur. Again, simple factual statement. Whatever further things you read into that – like, for instance, your talk about “banning” words earlier in the post – is your own invention. In fact, any discussion about who should and shouldn’t use which slur in what context is really far outside the purview of GQ. The simple fact is that “fag” is a slur. > [@](#): > > Perhaps you can point us to the definition that applies here. Yes, let’s define common, well-known words. That sounds like a productive avenue for discussion. Let’s make sure we get things started properly though, by defining “word” and “definition”. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/53 "2012-07-01T02:37:02Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Hey guys, did you know that if you repeated qm opinion over and over, in the face of evidence to the contrqry, it makes it a fact and everyone that disagrees an idiot? :rolleyes: There was no evidence to the contrary. There were just counterfactual assertions and attempts to hijack by veering off into discussion of things that aren’t faction. [QUOTE=Wikipedia] Faggot, often shortened to fag, is a pejorative term and common slur used chiefly in North America against homosexual males. [/QUOTE] > **[Faggot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_%28slang%29)** > > Faggot, often shortened to fag, is a slur in the English language that was used to refer to gay men but its meaning has expanded to other members of the queer community. In American youth culture around the turn of the 21st century, its meaning extended as a broader reaching insult more related to masculinity and group power structure. > The usage of fag and faggot has spread from the United States to varying extents elsewhere in the English-speaking world (especially the UK) through mass cult... We’re not talking about some obscure fact hardly anyone knows. This is very, very common knowledge and there’s nothing to actually argue about here, so it’s hard for me to understand why people are arguing or demanding citations over something so trivial. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/54 "2012-07-01T02:43:41Z")
“Fag” is a slur. “Hag” is a slur. “Fag hag” is not a slur, despite the fact that each individual component is a slur, and despite the fact that in early use the phrase WAS derogatory. Usage changes, and the fact that the words rhyme and that the women in question are obviously not hags, and the men in question do not identify as fags except ironically, have contributed to the change. See how that works? Now, you can certainly create a scenario in which “fag hag” is a slur, but common usage is against you. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/55 "2012-07-01T02:56:04Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > “Fag” is a slur. > “Hag” is a slur. > “Fag hag” is not a slur, despite the fact that each individual component is a slur, and despite the fact that in early use the phrase WAS derogatory. Usage changes, and the fact that the words rhyme and that the women in question are obviously not hags, and the men in question do not identify as fags except ironically, have contributed to the change. > > See how that works? Now, you can certainly create a scenario in which “fag hag” is a slur, but common usage is against you. “Fag hag” is still frequently used in an insulting way (generally insulting to the woman being described). That was mentioned by someone else earlier in the thread so I know I’m not the only one who’s heard it used insultingly. The fact that in some groups it’s used positively and people identify happily with it is fine – if they and their friends are comfortable with it, more power to 'em – but it doesn’t erase the other, older insulting sense of the term. If the insulting sense of it completely passes out of common usage, that’ll change, but it’ll be a while before that happens. Either way, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s referring to gay men as “fags”. That fact really couldn’t be simpler or clearer. ---
**Author:** ![6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/e19adc/32.png) [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/56 "2012-07-01T03:11:07Z")
I thought this thread was about what the male equivalent to a ‘fag hag’ is; not whether the example term is insulting or not. (Which, personally I’ve only known to be used in the context of endearment rather than derogation.) On the strength of the argument put forward by **mister nyx** , any equal term that includes the word ‘dyke’ could be considered an affront - but for some reason the emphasis of the debate seems to be purely about the words ‘fag’ and ‘hag’. I don’t understand the fixation. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/57 "2012-07-01T03:28:48Z")
> [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](#): > > I thought this thread was about what the male equivalent to a ‘fag hag’ is; not whether the example term is insulting or not. (Which, personally I’ve only known to be used in the context of endearment rather than derogation.) > > On the strength of the argument put forward by **mister nyx** , any equal term that includes the word ‘dyke’ could be considered an affront - but for some reason the emphasis of the debate seems to be purely about the words ‘fag’ and ‘hag’. > > I don’t understand the fixation. Yes, I don’t understand it either and I apologize for my part in distracting from the main topic of the thread (although I believe the question had been answered by that point – there are several such words and phrases but none seem to be quite mainstream). Unfortunately my simple statement that “fag” is a slur (in response to WhyNot’s post) obviously led to some controversy, as inane as that is. Hence the distraction. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/58 "2012-07-01T03:33:14Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > … > > I’d throw in the genderqueer, asexuals, and trans people and get more combinations, but the first two are so rare and asking about the latter might be offensive as it implies that trans people see themselves as different from cisgendered people. :D, and then for the kicker, another :D. - I don’t even know what cisgendered is. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/59 "2012-07-01T03:45:43Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > When was “gay” a slur? 1973, Pine Grove Junior High School. Wednesday afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756/60 "2012-07-01T03:57:23Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Nor does it really have to do with factual discussions of anything. The snark was out of line for this forum. Apologies. > [@mister\_nyx](#): > > The word “nigger” is a slur. Again, simple factual statement. It is a false statement. The claim that a word or phrase can \*inherently \*be a slur is a false one. I challenge you to find a definition for _slur_ which does not require disparagement, but includes words which merely _might_ be used in a disparaging manner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-word-for-the-male-equivalent-of-a-fag-hag/626756.md?page=4)