# What is the world's oldest religion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 12, 2000, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111 "2000-12-12T00:25:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/1 "2000-12-12T00:25:29Z")
Does anyone know what the oldest organized religion is, how it got started, and why? If this has been asked before I’d appreciate a link to a thread. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/2 "2000-12-12T00:31:46Z")
Do you mean the world’s oldest religion that is still around, or just the oldest religion period? If the latter, I doubt we’ll ever know. If the former, it depends upon who you ask. Hinduism dates back to about 4000 BCE. But it was a far different religion then than it is now. According to the Bible, men began to “call on the name of Yahweh” as far back as Enosh. But that’s probably not true. Likewise, the Muslims think that Adam and Eve were the first Muslims, and that Islam dates back to the dawn of humanity. Zoroastrians place the birthdate of Zoroaster anywhere between 6000 and 600 BCE, with later dates being much more likely. So, Hinduism takes the cake if you’re looking for verifiable, empirical evidence. But if you’re willing to take religious texts at face value, virtually every religion claims to be the original one. ---
**Author:** ![woolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/3 "2000-12-12T00:33:07Z")
The oldest organized religion is … self interest. ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/4 "2000-12-12T00:43:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Opus1 \* > Do you mean the world’s oldest religion that is still around, or just the oldest religion period? If the latter, I doubt we’ll ever know. If the former, it depends upon who you ask. I actually wanted to know what the oldest religion was, regardless if it still existed or not. \ No clue, huh? > [@](#): > > Hinduism dates back to about 4000 BCE. But it was a far different religion then than it is now. According to the Bible, men began to “call on the name of Yahweh” as far back as Enosh. But that’s probably not true. Likewise, the Muslims think that Adam and Eve were the first Muslims, and that Islam dates back to the dawn of humanity. Zoroastrians place the birthdate of Zoroaster anywhere between 6000 and 600 BCE, with later dates being much more likely. > > So, Hinduism takes the cake if you’re looking for verifiable, empirical evidence. But if you’re willing to take religious texts at face value, virtually every religion claims to be the original one. So, it kind of boils down to religion is the true one. Oh, well. I was hoping for some sort of documentation but I guess that’s not happening. Thanks for being sweet enough to respond, Opus1. ---
**Author:** ![jenkinsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cc9497/32.png) [@jenkinsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jenkinsfan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/5 "2000-12-12T00:46:00Z")
> [@](#): > > So, it kind of boils down to religion is the true one Please insert the preposition “which” between “to” and “religion”. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![MissDiagnosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e79b87/32.png) [@MissDiagnosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissDiagnosis)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/6 "2000-12-12T01:15:10Z")
IMHO, you should consult a Rabbi. The jewish faith was the first documented organized religion, according to the Bible, and the Quran. I guess to agree with other posts, it depends on if you choose to believe those testaments or not. I am not sure about Hundu, but I do know that several Yiddish words are the same as Hindu. Once, again, I suppose it depends on what you are willing to believe at face value! Good luck in your search! Sassy ---
**Author:** ![jb\_farley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9d8465/32.png) [@jb\_farley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_farley)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/7 "2000-12-12T01:25:00Z")
and if you aren’t just talking about organized religions, you may want to look into animism, totemism, etc. jb ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/8 "2000-12-12T01:39:22Z")
The Egyptians and Sumerians certainly had organized religions, and if you want early _written_ self-documentation these would be the ones. Certainly much older than any _written_ documentation of Judaism or Hinduism, regardless of what their later traditions might say. But of course, archaeology shows evidence of religions much older than that. And cave paintings tens of thousands of years old show some indications of spiritual belief. What do you mean by “organized” religion? And what kind of evidence are you looking for? ---
**Author:** ![mipsman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mipsman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mipsman)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/9 "2000-12-12T03:22:19Z")
The religion of the Great Mother or Magna Mater. The obese female figures known from Cro-Magnon times are either Magna Mater deities or pornography but by the time of Catal Hoyuk in Turkey (6000 BC) people who were probably the direct descendants of the original Balkan/Anatolian Aurignacian/Cro-Magnons were definitely worshipping similar obese females statues. Most of the female deities of Greek mythology have some aspects of this Anatolian Great Mother either through direct derivation or borrowing of attributes. The Greeks did slim Her down and pretty Her up and in one case gave Her a whole lot more breasts. But She is the same Deity, with Her organized worship lasting well into the first few centuries of the Christian era and, arguably, can still be directly identified with the Deity revered by modern Earth Mother matriarchial religions. ---
**Author:** ![peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peace)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/10 "2000-12-12T03:49:56Z")
Opus, my WD&T say: “Mohammed, 570-632, founder of Islam”. I thought that Muslims do follow Islam, but you say they think that Adam and Eve were Muslims. How could they have been Muslims before Islam was founded? So, did I goofed or you WD&T? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/11 "2000-12-12T03:54:25Z")
Like everone else is saying, everything depends on the definition of “organised”. A great site for Sumerian religion - the oldest relgion we have a really good understanding of is [here](http://www.mindspring.com/~mysticgryphon/religndx.htm) If you are after truly ancient stuff, then check out this article on Britannica (search for paleolithic religion if the link doesn’t work) [http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/3/0,5716,117313+1,00.html](http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/3/0,5716,117313+1,00.html) Middle Paleolithic being c. 100,000 years ago - that’s a LOOOOOONG time ago ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/12 "2000-12-12T09:27:23Z")
The oldest organized, continually in force, more or less the same now as it was then- Judiasm. Virtually the same since at least 500BC, in place since 1000 BC, and earlier. Hinduism apparently goes back further, but as opus said- it has changed radically. Can we say it is the same? Great Mother? Well, there was a fertility Goddess, or goddesses, certainly, in prehistoric times, but we know very little (that’s why they call them “pre-historic”)- certainly not enuf to say that the Greco-roman fertility cults were directly related. Anyway- those cult/faiths died out sometime around 1000AD, and did not come back until the 20th century. When you ask which is the “oldest”, I assume, you do not want the one with the just the earliest birthdate- but the oldest surviving. Like if one asks who is the “Oldest human”?- The answer should not be some dead guy. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/13 "2000-12-12T11:04:14Z")
The word _al-islâm_ means ‘submission to God’, and it has a wider, universal meaning as well as a narrower, particular meaning. The Islamic view of prophethood is that God revealed essentially the same doctrine to all the 124,000 prophets all over the world: the oneness of God. In various times and cultures, it was expressed differently, according to the circumstances. All the Biblical prophets are included in this lineage. A prophet in Islam is defined as a human being who received revelation from God. In this sense, Adam was the first prophet. This doesn’t mean “Islam” in the narrower sense of the religion promulgated by Muhammad; it is Islam in the broadest sense, which is universal, the ground from which all revealed religions emerged. The religion of Muhammad is a particular instance of this general concept. ---
**Author:** ![Danimal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Danimal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danimal)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/14 "2000-12-12T16:06:55Z")
The Rig-Veda dates back to at least 3700 B.C. I say that gives Hinduism a solid claim to be the oldest. Sure, Hinduism may be different now from what it was then. So are Christianity and Judaism. I would consider animism to be a class or style of religions rather than a religion in itself. Shinto is essentially animist, but I can’t see calling a Shinto priest and a Bakongo shaman as fellow worshipers of a single religion. While animist-style religions were surely practiced long before Hinduism, I doubt any single animist religion extant today goes back that far. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/15 "2000-12-12T16:23:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Judiasm. Virtually the same since at least 500BC “Virtually the same” doesn’t hold water. The original Judaism was centered on the priestly sacrifice in the Temple at Jerusalem. There have been no more sacrifices, and no more priesthood, since the destruction of the Second Temple. Thus large chunks of the Pentateuch, governing the priestly sacrifice and the Temple administration, have been in abeyance for 1,930 years. Hillel then had to practically reinvent Judaism, and produced the rabbinical version that is still practiced today. That was a major break in continuity. So even though Judaism does reach way back to 1000 BC or so, it is by no means “Virtually the same.” ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/16 "2000-12-12T16:34:05Z")
I would go with Hinduism as the oldest continuous religion. What we now know as “Hinduism” (a term of fairly recent coinage) comes from a combination of several different streams. One is the Rg Veda, which can be dated back to 3700 BC or whatever. But note that the Vedic religion, which was based on cow and horse sacrifices, is not practiced any more. (Compare with Judaism’s sacrificial rites also in abeyance.) The Aryans brought the Rg Veda into India, but often I think too much attention is focused on this white patriarchal Brahminical Aryan side of Hinduism. They subjugated the indigenous dark-skinned Dravidian and Austroasiatic peoples, but over time the original, indigenous religious cults have reasserted themselves: the Mother Goddess Sakti Devi, and the great ascetic Siva. Yoga and Tantra allied with Saktism and Saivism. According to Mircea Eliade, these practices can be traced back to neolithic shamanism. Either way you look at it, Hinduism has the objective record of the oldest religion still alive today. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/17 "2000-12-12T16:42:32Z")
\*\*mipsman wrote: The religion of the Great Mother or Magna Mater. The obese female figures known from Cro-Magnon times are either Magna Mater deities or pornography but by the time of Catal Hoyuk in Turkey (6000 BC) people who were probably the direct descendants of the original Balkan/Anatolian Aurignacian/Cro-Magnons were definitely worshipping similar obese females statues.\*\* I assume you’re speaking of the Willendorf Venus figurine? If so, you’re making some rash assumptions. We don’t know what that statuette was meant for. There’s no cultural context to place it, so any assumptions are just that; assumptions. Think of it this way, in the year 6500 of the Gregorian calendar, anthropologists are digging in the ruins of some ancient city, called by the natives something like “Nu 'Ork.” In one building, they find a collection of flat, regular sheets of some ancient material, most of the sheets are covered in some ancient script, but now illegible because the material was covered in water at some time. In the very center of the collection of sheets is strange image, a very thin female, covered in gauzey clothes. The image is on a sheet that’s larger than the others, obviously it has some more importance than the other pages. The top sheet of this collection has one word “HUSTLER” on it, the rest of the sheet is missing. After some analysis, the anthropologists declare that these ancient people worshipped female deities. **Most of the female deities of Greek mythology have some aspects of this Anatolian Great Mother either through direct derivation or borrowing of attributes. The Greeks did slim Her down and pretty Her up and in one case gave Her a whole lot more breasts. But She is the same Deity, with Her organized worship lasting well into the first few centuries of the Christian era and, arguably, can still be directly identified with the Deity revered by modern Earth Mother matriarchial religions.** Citation, please, for any of this? I’ll agree with a Goddess being worshipped in the areas you mention, but you draw a line of continuity for this Goddess between the early historic period to the late Roman empire, some several thousand years. ---
**Author:** ![douglips](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@douglips](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/douglips)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/18 "2000-12-12T16:57:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by peace \* > \*\*Opus, my WD&T say: “Mohammed, 570-632, founder of Islam”. I thought that Muslims do follow Islam, but you say they think that Adam and Eve were Muslims. How could they have been Muslims before Islam was founded? > So, did I goofed or you WD&T? \*\* You goofed, unless I misunderstand your question. You ask how could Adam and Eve have been Muslim before Mohammed was born? If the definition of “Muslim” is “One who follows Mohammed’s teachings”, the obvious answer is they could **not** have been Muslims. That’s the wrong question. Perhaps you meant to ask > [@](#): > > How can _Muslims believe that_ they could have been Muslims before Islam was founded? In which case the answer is the same as any “How can Religion X believe Tenet Y?” question. The magic of ‘faith’. If Mohammed said that Adam and Eve were pink elephants, some people may have believed that. Sitting here asking if you are mistaken to think that is absurd doesn’t change the fact that they believe that. In other words, you are right that Mohammed founded Islam. Opus may be right if he ascribes a belief to Islam which is not contradicted by the simple fact of Mohammed’s birthdate. Everyone’s right, no one is wrong. And I’ll bite - what’s a WD&T? ---
**Author:** ![peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peace)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/19 "2000-12-12T18:20:31Z")
Ishmintingas, you seem to be a knowledgeble guy in this field. I am totally confused now: did Mohammed founded Islam after 570 or my WD&T is wrong? Both meanings of al-islâm (Islam) nonwithstsnding? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111/20 "2000-12-12T18:25:49Z")
I agree with **Freyr** on the so-called “Venus figurines.” What is the evidence that they are religious figurines? I think the primitive porno explanation is much more likely. Guy goes on a long hunting expedition. No females around, but he has this hand-sized figurine with exaggerated female anatomical features (read: “mighty big breasts”). Now he’s got this figurine in one hand. What to do with his other hand? What to do? Hmmm… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-worlds-oldest-religion/45111.md?page=2)