# What is this chord progression? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688 "2009-09-19T03:07:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/1 "2009-09-19T03:07:46Z")
When I played (drums) in a band, I wrote songs by humming the melodies/riffs to the guitar player, who’d play it 'til he got the sound I wanted. He would always laugh, though, because he said all my songs had the same chord progression (the one time I wrote a song that had a different chord progression, he told me it was my standard one backwards and laughed even more), which he illustrated with (if I remember correctly) “Walking On Sunshine”, “Louie, Louie”, “You Really Got Me”, “Wild Thing”, etc. Now, these songs don’t really sound so similar to me, but then I’m not a guitarist - are chord progressions (which I only vaguely understand the concept of) more important in making songs sound alike than the actual _chords_ being played? And what exactly is this chord progression (I take it it’s a pretty standard one for rock)? ---
**Author:** ![Commander\_Keen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Commander\_Keen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commander_Keen)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/2 "2009-09-19T03:15:26Z")
Amateur musician opinion: Unless you have perfect pitch, you won’t be able to tell the actual chords being played in a song just by hearing it. So yes, the chord progression is basically what matters. Walking on Sunshine is I-IV-V-IV, in other words you play the root chord of the key you’re in, then the fourth, then the fifth, the the fourth again (ex: A D E D). This progression is indeed very standard in rock and pop music. I believe Louie Louie and Wild Thing are I-IV-v, same thing except the fifth is a minor (might be wrong on those, just sounds like it to me). You Really Got Me doesn’t sound that similar to me, but I think the other 3 are pretty similar. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/3 "2009-09-19T03:19:22Z")
I - IV - V This is the most common progression in rock/pop/blues music. Start with the first chord, count 4 whole steps to the next, then 5 whole steps from the 1st chord for the last. So, if your root (first) chord is A, the 4th is D and the 5th is E. ETA: variations on this prolly make up like 60% of pop/rock music. Another 30% are the hated I - III - IV progression, characterized by Frank Zappa as “bad white people music”. ---
**Author:** ![Commander\_Keen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Commander\_Keen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commander_Keen)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/4 "2009-09-19T03:20:47Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > are chord progressions (which I only vaguely understand the concept of) more important in making songs sound alike than the actual _chords_ being played? I should add here–if you’re talking about “the actual chords” in terms of how you play them on the guitar (open vs. barre chord, for example), then that can make a difference in sound. But if you’re asking whether two songs played identically, but one transposed to a different key, will sound different, then to me at least the answer is no, they’ll sound identical. (assuming I don’t hear them side-by-side so I could pick out the obvious transposition) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/5 "2009-09-19T03:32:30Z")
My apologies… once I posted that I knew it was wrong, so I looked it up, and it was the II - V - I progression that Frank characterized as “the essence of bad ‘white people music.’” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/6 "2009-09-19T03:32:33Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > ETA: variations on this prolly make up like 60% of pop/rock music. Another 30% are the hated I - III - IV progression, characterized by Frank Zappa as “bad white people music”. To expand, this would actually be i-III-IV or I-flat III-IV, depending on how you’re interpreting the tonality (this progression is usually played with power chords, which, since they leave out the third, are harmonically ambiguous. “Smoke on the Water” would be the cliche example of this progression.) I don’t think it’s quite _that_ common, though. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/7 "2009-09-19T03:36:16Z")
As for the OP … Everything except for “You Really Got Me” is pretty similar. “Wild Thing” and “Walking on Sunshine” are both I-IV-V-IV, and “Louie Louie” is similar with I-IV-v-IV. (Lowercase indicates minor chords; uppercase is major.) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/8 "2009-09-19T03:37:51Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > To expand, this would actually be i-III-IV or I-flat III-IV, depending on how you’re interpreting the tonality (this progression is usually played with power chords, which, since they leave out the third, are harmonically ambiguous. “Smoke on the Water” would be the cliche example of this progression.) I don’t think it’s quite _that_ common, though. Are you calling me a liar? I _never_ exaggerate! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/9 "2009-09-19T03:38:19Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > My apologies… once I posted that I knew it was wrong, so I looked it up, and it was the II - V - I progression that Frank characterized as “the essence of bad ‘white people music.’” Sorry–is that II-V-I or ii-V-I (which is more usual)? It’s kind of the harmonic hallmark of jazz; much of it is based around that progression. I wouldn’t necessarily call it “white people music”, even though I sure as hell am bored of it. edit: To your response above, I posted before I saw your update. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/10 "2009-09-19T03:38:41Z")
> [@Commander\_Keen](#): > > I should add here–if you’re talking about “the actual chords” in terms of how you play them on the guitar (open vs. barre chord, for example), then that can make a difference in sound. But if you’re asking whether two songs played identically, but one transposed to a different key, will sound different, then to me at least the answer is no, they’ll sound identical. > > (assuming I don’t hear them side-by-side so I could pick out the obvious transposition) No, I just meant that, as a listener, “Walking On Sunshine”, “Louie, Louie” and “Wild Thing” sound different enough (to me) that I wouldn’t know (not being a guitarist/keyboardist/whatever) they were based on the same chord progression, so why all the mockery for me using it for every song? I mean, I could understand if everything I wrote sounded like a copy of each other, but the arrangements/number of notes are what make a song different to the average listener, right? I was just a bit baffled because the actual riffs weren’t the same, so the songs didn’t sound all that similar to me. Thanks for the info, guys! **Snowboarder Bo** , can you give me a couple examples of the dreaded I-III-IV progression? I’m intrigued. ETA: Oops, make that II-V-I progression. I type slowly. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/11 "2009-09-19T03:42:42Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > No, I just meant that, as a listener, “Walking On Sunshine”, “Louie, Louie” and “Wild Thing” sound different enough (to me) that I wouldn’t know (not being a guitarist/keyboardist/whatever) they were based on the same chord progression, so why all the mockery for me using it for every song? I mean, I could understand if everything I wrote sounded like a copy of each other, but the arrangements/number of notes are what make a song different to the average listener, right? I was just a bit baffled because the actual riffs weren’t the same, so the songs didn’t sound all that similar to me. Thanks for the info, guys! > > **Snowboarder Bo** , can you give me a couple examples of the dreaded I-III-IV progression? I’m intrigued. Like my esteemed colleague, **Professor Pulykamell** , mentioned, prolly the best known I-III-IV song is Deep Purple’s _Smoke On the Water_ (coincidentally, written about something that happened at a Frank Zappa show). FTR, I don’t have a problem with it as a progression, but I have heard more than one musician sneer at it as “blues light” or somesuch. ETA: [Here is a good example of the I-III-IV being abused](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b714Wi4CDsQ). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/12 "2009-09-19T03:45:29Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > No, I just meant that, as a listener, “Walking On Sunshine”, “Louie, Louie” and “Wild Thing” sound different enough (to me) that I wouldn’t know (not being a guitarist/keyboardist/whatever) they were based on the same chord progression. OK, “Walking on Sunshine” may be a little harder to catch, but try out “Louie, Louie” and “Wild Thing.” Sing “Louie, Louie” over “Wild Thing.” Or vice versa (although I think it’s a little easier the other way around.) See how the chords behind the melody move very similarly (although they are _not_ identical due to the minor chord in “Louis Louis.”) “Walking on Sunshine” has that same movement to it. You can easily sing these two songs over it (although at a substantially increased tempo) and feel the same harmonic movement behind it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/13 "2009-09-19T03:46:50Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Like my esteemed colleague, **Professor Pulykamell** mentioned, prolly the best known I-III-IV song is Deep Purple’s _Smoke On the Water_ (coincidentally, written about something that happened at a Frank Zappa show). Really? How oddly coincidental. What’s the story behind the song? I really don’t know much about Zappa (or Deep Purple, for that matter, but I’m more familiar with them.) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/14 "2009-09-19T03:50:02Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > ETA: Oops, make that II-V-I progression. I type slowly. Sure. Let’s see… I think _Got To Get You Into My Life_ by the Beatles, _Layla_ by Eric Clapton, lots of Beach Boys songs, if I remember correctly. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/15 "2009-09-19T03:56:41Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > ETA: [Here is a good example of the I-III-IV being abused](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b714Wi4CDsQ). Sorry, I really don’t mean to be nitpicky (but since it’s the Dope, I have to be), but that’s I-V-flat VII. I do understand what you mean, but the tonic is that first and last chord of that riff, so it’s I-I-V-flat VII:repeat instead of IV-IV-I-flat III:repeat.) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/16 "2009-09-19T03:58:47Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Really? How oddly coincidental. What’s the story behind the song? I really don’t know much about Zappa (or Deep Purple, for that matter, but I’m more familiar with them.) Well, just look at [the lyrics](http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/deep+purple/smoke+on+the+water_20038742.html): > [@](#): > > We all came out to Montreux > On the lake geneva shoreline > To make records with a mobile > We didnt have much time > Frank zappa and the mothers > Were at the best place around > But some stupid with a flare gun > Burned the place to the ground > Smoke on the water, fire in the sky That’s pretty much what happened. DP was in town with the Rolling Stones mobile recording studio to do some recording, and the night before they were set to start, FZ had a show in the theatre of the Montreux Casino (where DP was going to set up and record). During the keyboard solo of _King Kong_, some idiot fired a flare gun straight up into the ceiling, setting the place on fire. The whole casino burned down, and Zappa & Co. lost all their equipment. DP had to find a new place to record, eventually settling into the Grand Hotel, where they recorded most of the tracks for **Machine Head**. Zappa wrote about it in **The Real Frank Zappa Book** , and [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_on_the_Water) actually has a decent write up of it, too. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/17 "2009-09-19T04:01:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Well, just look at [the lyrics](http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/deep+purple/smoke+on+the+water_20038742.html): Where’s the embarrassed smiley? Shows you how much I pay attention to lyrics. I think about the only lyrics I could sing from that is “Smoke on the water, fire in the sky.” Had no clue Zappa was name-checked in there. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/18 "2009-09-19T04:04:46Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Sorry, I really don’t mean to be nitpicky (but since it’s the Dope, I have to be), but that’s I-V-flat VII. I do understand what you mean, but the tonic is that first and last chord of that riff, so it’s I-I-V-flat VII:repeat instead of IV-IV-I-flat III:repeat.) I bow to your obviously superior ear and knowledge; I’m just a simple snowboarder who enjoys flailing the strings. I know there was some obnoxious pop/dance tune from around that time that was a I-III-IV tho… my friend Jiggs (bass player) used to make fun of it all the time. Maybe it was that Dee-Lite song or something? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/19 "2009-09-19T04:20:42Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > …ETA: [Here is a good example of the I-III-IV being abused](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b714Wi4CDsQ). Dammit, I _like_ that song. Am I supposed to be contemptuous for it for some reason? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688/20 "2009-09-19T04:22:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I bow to your obviously superior ear and knowledge; I’m just a simple snowboarder who enjoys flailing the strings. No, no, you quite got the chords right, just the wrong sequence. I-flat III- IV is the same as I-V-flat VII, depdning on where you feel the tonic (I chord) is. So, C-E flat-F is I-flat III-IV in the key of C, but V-flat VII-I in the key of F. It all depends on where you feel that “finality” (tonic), for lack of better description. > [@](#): > > I know there was some obnoxious pop/dance tune from around that time that was a I-III-IV tho… my friend Jiggs (bass player) used to make fun of it all the time. Maybe it was that Dee-Lite song or something? Hmm…I don’t know. “Groove is in the Heart” is basically I-V over and over. Different era, but “Na Na Na Hey Hey Hey (Kiss Him Goodbye)” is I-flat III- IV. edit: Crap, no, it’s I-flat III-flat VII (I’m not that good at playing progressions in my head. The piano set me straight.) This is going to bug me now. What the hell songs fit that progression? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-chord-progression/510688.md?page=2)