# What is this mystery cross? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 6, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331 "2018-02-06T22:07:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sandwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@Sandwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwood)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/1 "2018-02-06T22:07:27Z")
The cross looks like a variation of the two-barred patriarchal cross, but with the upper bar being shorter and slanted. I hope the picture link works: [http://s5.photobucket.com/user/Sandwood/media/Web/orthodox\_cross\_1.jpg.html](http://s5.photobucket.com/user/Sandwood/media/Web/orthodox_cross_1.jpg.html) To provide a context: It’s from my grandfather’s “in memoriam” card, and he was Russian Orthodox and of Ukrainian origin. The card was printed in Austria in the late 1970s. I’d always thought it was just the normal Russian Orthodox cross, but today I’ve actually looked at the card again, and I realized that it’s something different. We’ve just spent half a day researching various types of crosses but couldn’t find any that actually look exactly the same, so for now we’ve come to the conclusion that maybe whoever printed the card just made up an “orthodox-looking” cross. :rolleyes: Has anyone here actually seen this exact type of cross anywhere before? ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/2 "2018-02-06T22:52:42Z")
FWIW my first thought was “yeah, I’ve seen those”, but after some searching I believe I was just misremembering the orhodox cross. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/3 "2018-02-06T23:18:16Z")
Link is not working for me. “Lorraine” style cross? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/4 "2018-02-06T23:24:00Z")
Maybe try posting the link to a photo hosting site so we can see it? Photobucket got out of the photo hosting business months ago. I’m not entirely sure what business they are in now, but it’s not photo hosting. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/5 "2018-02-06T23:26:42Z")
It’s an archiepiscopal cross to signify an archbishop. > **[Archiepiscopal cross](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archiepiscopal_cross)** > > An archiepiscopal cross (archbishop's cross) is a two-barred cross used by or to signify or dignify an archbishop. Similar to the patriarchal cross, it is typically made like a staff with the two barred cross up top and a very long downwards extending arm. ETA: or a patriarchal cross, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/6 "2018-02-06T23:27:08Z")
Are you having trouble seeing the photo, **Chronos**? Shows up just fine for me. Not sure I’ve seen it, but the only thing I thought was that I wasn’t sure if the upper bar was slanted, or if it was a perspective representation of a three dimensional object (so, upper bar orthogonal to the lower bar.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/7 "2018-02-06T23:33:34Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > It’s an archiepiscopal cross to signify an archbishop. > > [Archiepiscopal cross - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archiepiscopal_cross) > > ETA: or a patriarchal cross, apparently. You see the patriarchal cross a lot in Eastern/Central Europe. The odd thing about this one is the slant on top. The Russian orthodox cross has a slant in it, but [its slant is on the bottom, and it’s got three bars.](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cross_of_the_Russian_Orthodox_Church_01.svg) I’m a intrigued as to what this could be. ---
**Author:** ![Sandwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@Sandwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwood)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/8 "2018-02-07T00:51:30Z")
Here is a different link for those who can’t see the image from the OP: [https://imgur.com/apKSaXy](https://imgur.com/apKSaXy) Unfortunately the image quality is poor, because the original is rather small in size, and the picture was taken with a tablet webcam. But it’s not like this is a very complex symbol, so it should be sufficient. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/9 "2018-02-07T05:14:27Z")
I’ve always known it as the [Cross of Lorraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Lorraine). I’m not any sort of scholar, but I’m guessing the slanted bars are just artistic license. ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/10 "2018-02-07T05:17:58Z")
Hey, you’re trying to fool us! It’s a double-cross! ---
**Author:** ![Sandwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@Sandwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwood)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/11 "2018-02-07T09:00:41Z")
Oh no, I’m found out. Please don’t be cross with me. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/12 "2018-02-07T11:16:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Maybe try posting the link to a photo hosting site so we can see it? Photobucket got out of the photo hosting business months ago. I’m not entirely sure what business they are in now, but it’s not photo hosting. The photo is visible. They seem to have backed down somewhat (though still no hot-linking.) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/13 "2018-02-07T12:39:31Z")
Photobucket worked for me!! It’s a miracle cross! ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/14 "2018-02-07T15:38:44Z")
From the way I look at the picture, I don’t think the bar is slanted I think it is meant to be perpendicular to the bottom bar and the perspective makes it look slanted. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/15 "2018-02-07T16:44:22Z")
The best I could find is [Orthodox Cross](http://blog.kaufersonline.com/?p=1308) (8th image down), but the OP’s cross has the slanted bar on top. The slanted bar was originally horizontal, but broke when Christ’s feet rested on it. The upper slant points to the good thief on the cross next to Christ, and the lower slant points to the bad thief on the other side. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-this-mystery-cross/808331/16 "2018-02-07T17:07:57Z")
FWIW, I did a quick line-drawing of the image and [put it in Google Images](https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbs=simg:CAES-QEJPbeVQSFpCEsa7QELEKjU2AQaBAgUCAoMCxCwjKcIGmIKYAgDEijxAboH8AH7EqAH7gH6ErcH0AK0B7w2rTaUPs0mqDSTPpA-uDaqNq42GjCMMF9ACfKi5BkpUVOtsDVu07abotNZbWa-7wtrWqFO2Kx7OgoQsHjlY7DLO5fDLx0gBAwLEI6u_1ggaCgoICAESBCvEfv8MCxCd7cEJGlkKIgoOcmVsaWdpb3VzIGl0ZW3apYj2AwwKCi9tLzBoOHA1bF8KFwoFY3Jvc3PapYj2AwoKCC9tLzAyMmNoChoKCHJlbGlnaW9u2qWI9gMKCggvbS8wNmJ2cAw&q=religious+item&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi69fiwpJTZAhVPd6wKHQ-GBBMQsw4IMg&biw=1056&bih=509). No exact hits, but some of the findings may be interesting anyway.