# What is Tom Sawyer by Rush about? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 22, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376 "2006-11-22T01:47:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/41 "2006-11-22T18:25:41Z")
[QUOTE=GingerOfTheNorth] I am making note here of my affection for both Rush and Geddy Lee’s voice. [/QUOTE] Got $10? Maybe you can hire him. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/42 "2006-11-22T18:47:02Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] Got $10? Maybe you can hire him. [/QUOTE] Ten bucks is ten bucks, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Madd\_Maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/43 "2006-11-22T21:42:45Z")
[QUOTE=GingerOfTheNorth] I am making note here of my affection for both Rush and Geddy Lee’s voice. [/QUOTE] You are from Canada. you have to like Rush. It think its even a law or something. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nothing\_Special](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9f8e36/32.png) [@Nothing\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothing_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/44 "2006-11-22T21:44:35Z")
[QUOTE=Jayrot] So what does this mean? [/QUOTE] Catch the witness, catch the wit. Catch the spirit, catch the spit. It is a challenge to the existing orthodoxy to deal with this brash type of young man. He is seeing it all, he has some sense of humor about it, he is inspired, and he is frothing at the mouth in his effort to tell people what he is seeing. That’s what it means. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/45 "2006-11-22T22:20:05Z")
[QUOTE=GingerOfTheNorth] Ditto. Neal Peart (circa A Show Of Hands) was the best drummer in rock. I haven’t paid much attention since the early 90s, so I haven’t got anything for comparison now and he may still be the best. [/QUOTE] Well, despite personal tragedy that he struggled to overcome, he has only gotten better. You can guess where that leaves him ranked. ---
**Author:** ![Nothing\_Special](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9f8e36/32.png) [@Nothing\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothing_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/46 "2006-11-22T23:17:09Z")
[QUOTE=Gatopescado] Well, despite personal tragedy that he struggled to overcome, he has only gotten better. You can guess where that leaves him ranked. [/QUOTE] No matter what Peart has done or will do, there is Keith Moon and then all the rest, buried deeply below. And that’s with Moon being dead for the last 38 years. Peart could almost exceed Moon on occasion (Spirit of Radio, Tom Sawyer), but he took too much time off on his lesser numbers. What was up with that trendy little pony tail in the 1980’s? Moon very rarely held off at all, and even in those cases (Relay, Join Together) when seen live, he’s thrashing away wildly, just as always. Moon never really let up until he croaked. Peart was a little too effete and self-preservatory. Also, Moon’s wife and daughter managed to survive _him_, at least until recently. That’s one hell of a feat. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/47 "2006-11-22T23:48:54Z")
[QUOTE=Nothing Special] No matter what Peart has done or will do, there is Keith Moon and then all the rest, buried deeply below. And that’s with Moon being dead for the last 38 years. Peart could almost exceed Moon on occasion (Spirit of Radio, Tom Sawyer), but he took too much time off on his lesser numbers. What was up with that trendy little pony tail in the 1980’s? Moon very rarely held off at all, and even in those cases (Relay, Join Together) when seen live, he’s thrashing away wildly, just as always. Moon never really let up until he croaked. Peart was a little too effete and self-preservatory. Also, Moon’s wife and daughter managed to survive _him_, at least until recently. That’s one hell of a feat. [/QUOTE] Nah, Bonham’s the man. Few rock drummers can _groove_ like Bonham. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/48 "2006-11-23T00:23:17Z")
Bonham could groove, and Moon could burn with intensity, but on any given song, they weren’t doing much that was particularly interesting. Apart from keeping time, they only distinguished themselves occasionally. Peart brings the drums up to an integral level of the song for pretty much every song. Nah, Peart takes those comparisons, hands down. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/49 "2006-11-23T00:37:53Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] Bonham could groove, and Moon could burn with intensity, but on any given song, they weren’t doing much that was particularly interesting. Apart from keeping time, they only distinguished themselves occasionally. Peart brings the drums up to an integral level of the song for pretty much every song. Nah, Peart takes those comparisons, hands down. [/QUOTE] 😕 Bonham didn’t do anything interesting? Are you joking? I’m not even talking about drum solos (booooooooring). I’m talking fills and musicality. Bonham oozed soul. His use of ghosted notes (especially on the kick drum) and triplet feels was legendary. Don’t get me wrong, Peart is great and probably my 4th or 5th favorite rock drummer, but to say Bonham didn’t do anything interesting on the drums is simply staggering. **Nothing Special** , I’ll hand it over to you for the Moon defense. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nothing\_Special](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9f8e36/32.png) [@Nothing\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothing_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/50 "2006-11-23T00:45:00Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] Nah, Bonham’s the man. Few rock drummers can _groove_ like Bonham. [/QUOTE] One of my first experiences on the internet was a perusal of posts by Who vs. Zeppelin fans in the mid-1900’s. Man, what hatred was flowing back and forth, even then, years after the original bands were long gone. Sure, Bonham could “groove” and his studio performance on numbers like “Misty Mountain Hop“ left one breathless. But I can air-drum that entire one, as well as many others by Bonham, including “Moby Dick.” I can’t air-drum a single number ever done by Moon in it’s entirety. That includes 2+ minute numbers like “Can’t Explain.” The guy just knew too much and could do it too well, like Hendrix. Bonham was great, but largely fundamental in his approach. Moon turned the drums into a lead instrument by sheer force. ---
**Author:** ![Nothing\_Special](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9f8e36/32.png) [@Nothing\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothing_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/51 "2006-11-23T00:46:17Z")
[QUOTE=Nothing Special] One of my first experiences on the internet was a perusal of posts by Who vs. Zeppelin fans in the mid-1900’s [/QUOTE] I meant the :mid-1990’s: for God’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/52 "2006-11-23T01:00:09Z")
[QUOTE=Nothing Special] Sure, Bonham could “groove” and his studio performance on numbers like “Misty Mountain Hop“ left one breathless. But I can air-drum that entire one, as well as many others by Bonham, including “Moby Dick.” [/QUOTE] I can “drum” some Bonham parts, too. I can’t make any of them sound like Bonham, though. The man had such an intuitive sense of beat and accent and there’s a subtlety in his drumming that absolutely blows me away. Like I said, his ghosting is phenomenal and no rock drummer makes you want to shake your ass like John Bonham does. Also, remember that air drumming doesn’t take into account the feet really. A lot of Bonham’s amazing work was what he did with his feet. He was a master of foot-to-hand triplets, and had one of the quickest right feet I’ve heard from a drummer. Moon? He had great energy and could beat the crap outta those skins. I don’t like his style, but I respect his place in the rock drummer echelon. Moon always sounded like an out-of-control monkey to me, but that’s part of his charm. He’s the perfect drummer for a band like the Who (who I do like.) But, anyhow, we’re digressing from the topic at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/53 "2006-11-23T01:36:19Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] But, anyhow, we’re digressing from the topic at hand. [/QUOTE] True, but let me just modify what I said about Bonham. It was wrong of me to say that he wasn’t doing anything interesting. But it isn’t his fills that are particularly interesting. What I like are most of his rhythms, like in _The Ocean_, _Fool in the Rain_, _Candy Store Rock_, _Poor Tom_, that sort of thing. That’s what I was referring to as grooving. But the thing is, as cool as his rhythyms are, in any given song, you’re gonna get that that groove for the duration. I agree with you about Moon, in all respects. ---
**Author:** ![Nothing\_Special](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9f8e36/32.png) [@Nothing\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothing_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/54 "2006-11-23T01:47:43Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] I can “drum” some Bonham parts, too. I can’t make any of them sound like Bonham, though. The man had such an intuitive sense of beat and accent and there’s a subtlety in his drumming that absolutely blows me away. Like I said, his ghosting is phenomenal and no rock drummer makes you want to shake your ass like John Bonham does. Also, remember that air drumming doesn’t take into account the feet really. A lot of Bonham’s amazing work was what he did with his feet. He was a master of foot-to-hand triplets, and had one of the quickest right feet I’ve heard from a drummer. Moon? He had great energy and could beat the crap outta those skins. I don’t like his style, but I respect his place in the rock drummer echelon. Moon always sounded like an out-of-control monkey to me, but that’s part of his charm. He’s the perfect drummer for a band like the Who (who I do like.) But, anyhow, we’re digressing from the topic at hand. [/QUOTE] Well, so we digress. And when I’m air-drumming, the feet most definitely come into play. That’s what tires me out so fast. I can’t keep up with Moon, but can with Bonham. Moon worked his double basses maniacally, once he could afford them. The brief break on “Pinball Wizard” (where he actually uses his high-hat) is an exquisite example of this. The unabated pounding on “The Real Me” is a further example. He eventually dropped the high-hat (except on “Who Are You,” on which he used it with typical, unconscious brilliance). He didn’t much need the device, and knew it. The cymbal washes he pulled off were more than enough. Bonham tapped on and smashed the cymbals very well. He couldn’t (perhaps didn’t) use them like a great horn-player uses the occasional squeal, as Moon did. And Moon could squeal, too, literally. He added several spontaneous moans to a number of Who songs that might only be discernable to the cogniscenti. The end of the break on “Acid Queen” is one example. This guy wanted to be 100% of everything that was going on all the time. And he pulled it off. Bonham was ultimately a superb time-keeper. On a real drum set I couldn’t make anything sound like Moon or Bonham. But I can dream, can’t I? Moon was the perfect drummer for The Who. Where else can you get four excellent rock musicians all vieing for supremacy? Zeppelin played together, and well. The Who played against each other, and better than well, at their best. Which would you choose? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/55 "2006-11-23T01:50:25Z")
Toss me into the “Wha’?” group regarding the OP. Peart’s lyrics are the most astonishing thing in rock music. Just utterly atypical songs that still managed to work complicated ideas into songs that caught the ear. Few people have ever done that. While I agree that Moon and Bonham may have had more emotion in their play I still think Peart wins hands down simply for his grasp of rhythm and his ability to be so damn complicated. It may be overly technical but it is _perfect_. Hell, he’s been known to complain about missing microseconds making him reject takes. I once had the Rush/Grateful Dead argument with a deadhead accountant at a place I worked. The best I could define it was ‘If they were cars the Dead would be a comfortable beat up pick up truck suitable for driving out to the lake with pals. Rush would be a pristine porsche 911, perfect, pristine, and somewhat untouchable.’ I find I like it that way. The Who and Led Zeppelin always seemed inconsistent to me. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/56 "2006-11-23T01:54:53Z")
I can’t believe someone would say that there is no emotion in Peart’s lyrics. Listen to _Losing It_, or **Red Barchetta** , or any number of songs. They drip with emotion. Maybe you’re confusing the lyrics with Geddy Lee’s delivery, which is an acquired taste. Peart is a great lyricist. One of the best in rock music. In fact, he’s so good that a lot of what he does is probably going over the heads of 90% of his audience. It’s not just about the meaning of the words, it’s about the words themselves - Peart does a lot of wordplay, tinkering around with rhyme, rhythm, the way a phrase scans, etc. Sometimes he’ll write a song just around a word that he really likes, or a particularly interesting interplay of phrases. I hesitate to use the word poet when talk about rock lyrics, but Peart’s lyrics are very poetic. Some great songwriters are story tellers - John Prine, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen. Peart can tell a story, but often his lyrics are much more obscure. Not many other rock lyricists would put together a phrase like, “An ounce of perception - a pound of obscure.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/57 "2006-11-23T02:18:37Z")
[QUOTE=Nothing Special] And when I’m air-drumming, the feet most definitely come into play. That’s what tires me out so fast. I can’t keep up with Moon, but can with Bonham. [/quote] If you can keep up with the triplet stutters on the kick of something like “Good Times Bad Times” then you’re a pretty damned good drummer. > [@](#): > > Moon worked his double basses maniacally, once he could afford them. The brief break on “Pinball Wizard” (where he actually uses his high-hat) is an exquisite example of this. The unabated pounding on “The Real Me” is a further example. Real drummers don’t need double bass. 😉 Seriously, though, what Bonham does with a single kick is nothing short of amazing. If you really think you can do that, than get yourself behind a drum kit. > [@](#): > > He eventually dropped the high-hat (except on “Who Are You,” on which he used it with typical, unconscious brilliance). He didn’t much need the device, and knew it. The cymbal washes he pulled off were more than enough. Bonham tapped on and smashed the cymbals very well. He couldn’t (perhaps didn’t) use them like a great horn-player uses the occasional squeal, as Moon did. Which brings us back to the subtlety that I appreciate in Bonham. I felt Moon to be a bit one-dimensional. > [@](#): > > And Moon could squeal, too, literally. He added several spontaneous moans to a number of Who songs that might only be discernable to the cogniscenti. The end of the break on “Acid Queen” is one example. This guy wanted to be 100% of everything that was going on all the time. And he pulled it off. Bonham was ultimately a superb time-keeper. Moon was definitely a fun drummer. > [@](#): > > Moon was the perfect drummer for The Who. Where else can you get four excellent rock musicians all vieing for supremacy? Zeppelin played together, and well. The Who played against each other, and better than well, at their best. > > Which would you choose? Agreed on the first point. As for the last, obviously I would choose Bonham, else we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I think Bonham + John Paul Jones is one of the greatest rhythm sections in rock. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/58 "2006-11-23T02:20:10Z")
[QUOTE=Madd Maxx] You are from Canada. you have to like Rush. It think its even a law or something. 😉 [/QUOTE] I think they’d take away my passport if I didn’t. Being Canadian, there is always a surge of pride when one of my fellow countrymen makes good, even though I don’t know them and will never meet them; so while listening to Canadian music I not only enjoy it aurally, there’s an emotion attached. Please note that this may be something completely unique to my world and that it does not include Celine Dion. [QUOTE=Sam Stone] I hesitate to use the word poet when talk about rock lyrics, but Peart’s lyrics are very poetic. Some great songwriters are story tellers - John Prine, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen. Peart can tell a story, but often his lyrics are much more obscure. Not many other rock lyricists would put together a phrase like, “An ounce of perception - a pound of obscure.” [/QUOTE] I love this paragraph and I also agree with it (I love Prine and Dylan and Springsteen as well but they’re very different). I need more Rush on CD. ---
**Author:** ![Nothing\_Special](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9f8e36/32.png) [@Nothing\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothing_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/59 "2006-11-23T02:20:35Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] Peart is a great lyricist. One of the best in rock music. In fact, he’s so good that a lot of what he does is probably going over the heads of 90% of his audience. It’s not just about the meaning of the words, it’s about the words themselves - Peart does a lot of wordplay, tinkering around with rhyme, rhythm, the way a phrase scans, etc. Sometimes he’ll write a song just around a word that he really likes, or a particularly interesting interplay of phrases. [/QUOTE] Okay, we’ll give Peart the nod over Moon in terms of lyrics and tune-writing. “Cobwebs and Strange,” “Girls Eyes,” and “I Need You,” just don’t hold up. But Moon could drum better and more intuitively than Peart, and with surporisingly less of the autistic manner that Peart has always displayed. Moon could look autistic at times, and then he’d break into that great, maniacal smile. ---
**Author:** ![Nothing\_Special](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9f8e36/32.png) [@Nothing\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothing_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2006, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376/60 "2006-11-23T02:31:10Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] Agreed on the first point. As for the last, obviously I would choose Bonham, else we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I think Bonham + John Paul Jones is one of the greatest rhythm sections in rock. [/QUOTE] Can you possibly compare them to Moon & Entwistle? Come on, we’re talking about two musicians (in Moon and Entwistle) who broke musical ground as no one ever had before. Entwistle played the base with all 5 fingers, while Moon played the drums with 11 hands/feet! Bonham and Jones followed Moon and Entwistle, as excellent but ultimately standard thudders. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-tom-sawyer-by-rush-about/381376.md?page=4)