# What is up with African American names **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 13, 2002, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402 "2002-12-13T02:30:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/81 "2002-12-13T19:54:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Elusive \* > The article does NOT say that there is a correlation between the mother’s education and the originality of the name; quite the opposite Thank, you, **Elusive**! As I said over in the Pit thread, I’m wary of copyright issues, so I just posted the link, but I see that I should have at least put some excepts or an explanation here. The two most important points: > [@](#): > > This is key: The black naming tradition has always, in America, been separate from the white one, distinct in its references and choices. It is a tradition influenced by Africa, influenced by Europe and American whites, more recently influenced by the Muslim culture. But it is, most dramatically, a tradition unto itself, uniquely African-American. > > At the core of the African-American naming culture are variety and invention. You can see that in LaKeisha: It takes something from here, something from there, shakes the spelling up a bit, to arrive at a name that’s new and special. and, although **Elusive** already posted it, I want to reiterate: > [@](#): > > **For whites, the tendency to choose unique names drops off as the child’s mother’s education rises, according to Lieberson. But for blacks, mother’s education does not affect the chances that she’ll choose an individual name for her child. African-American mothers of different education levels, says Lieberson, tend to choose names more like each other than do white mothers of the same education level. “Race,” says Lieberson, "is a more powerful influence than class on the naming of children."** ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/82 "2002-12-13T20:17:19Z")
Hmmm, I now see that this is in **GQ** , not in **GD** as I had thought when I followed a link to get here. While I do not retract my statements, I do acknowledge that their expression was not entirely consistent with **GQ** protocols. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/83 "2002-12-13T20:23:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*Hmmm, I now see that this is in **GQ** , not in **GD** as I had thought when I followed a link to get here. While I do not retract my statements, I do acknowledge that their expression was not entirely consistent with **GQ** protocols. \*\* I dunno, it seems to be moving rapidly in a downward direction. Whether it will go all the way to the bottom, I don’t know - but hang on to your hats, it’s sure to be a bumpy ride. ---
**Author:** ![jack\_ss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c77e96/32.png) [@jack\_ss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jack_ss)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/84 "2002-12-13T20:38:16Z")
OK, what about all the white americans with weird spelling variations to their names, like Alicia, Alisha, Alisa, Alysse, Alissa, etc. Or my nephew: Kahnnyr for Connor. Don’t worry, I told my brother it wasn’t the smartest thing he’d done in his life; the kid’s gonna have to correct people’s spelling ALL HIS LIFE. I’ve known a Shanaqua, a Laquanda, Tenisha(sp?), a Latifa, Yeshua, Terrell, several Darnells, Tyrones, Antiones. First impression was that they were ghetto sounding names, but most of them were decent, intelligent people. Not common names in white american subculture, but not incredibly uncommon among black american subculture. A.A. is definitely a sub-culture of america. No hostility implied from either side, it’s just a fact. Many people take pride in their sub-cultural identity (say it loud!) and wish to accentuate it. Think St. Patrick’s day, Oktoberfest, Cinco de Mayo, etc. Personally, if I have a son I’m gonna name him Geronimo. I’ll be naming him after a great man who spoke 3 languages fluently, was a religious leader, warrior, cross-cultural negotiator, and later in life an entertainer. although I’m not Apache, it’s a totally american name and he can shorten it to Jerry, Ron or Moe. And come on, Geronimo Max, that sounds **REALLY FREAKIN’ COOL**!!! ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/85 "2002-12-13T20:56:41Z")
My wife’s first name is Gýne; she has two younger sisters named Láun and Bráunde. The youngest in the family is a boy named Kyle. Dad put his foot down, I understand. 😃 The whole family is quite white, as it happens. Although I would be remiss if I concealed the fact the my mother-in-law, the responsible party for the choice of names, currently lives in a single-wide in Lousiana with her fifth husband. Make of that what you will … ---
**Author:** ![Blueapple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Blueapple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blueapple)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/86 "2002-12-13T21:06:24Z")
[Behind the name: African names](http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/afr.html) ---
**Author:** ![raisinbread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8491ac/32.png) [@raisinbread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raisinbread)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/87 "2002-12-13T22:42:43Z")
[color=“purple”][The Utah Baby Namer](http://www.wesclark.com/ubn/top.html) for those of you who are too lazy for Google. It’s full of wacky crackers with even crazier names. I can say cracker because I am white so that doesn’t make it racist. Yes, I was making a commentary on American society at large rather than saying “straighten up and fly right and name your kids after saints” or some other shit. **vibrotronica** had the best damned answer about unusual names. It’s only folks who get so bent out of shape about their identity that make others think “Shit, there’s something more but they’re not letting on!” Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And **jehovah68** my family had no part in American slavery and since I am Sicilian I do have a drop of moorish blood or so I’ve been told. I’d think folks should be proud of having Presidential surnames since it means they could have higher aspirations. Other than that most white, anglo surnames are pretty bland unless someone in the past did something pretty cool that was worth remembering. Plus get over slavery already. It’s been four hundred years, cut your whining, straighten up, fly right and make something of yourself. I don’t hear about the Israelites bitching about the Egyptitans for everything pre-Moses. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/88 "2002-12-13T22:55:18Z")
Regarding Dayanara: It is strange, but it is a Greek mythology name. And yes, since Dayanara won Miss Universe in 1993, some moms decided to name their daughters after her. I’m a happy product of made-up names. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/89 "2002-12-13T23:00:08Z")
Well, I’ve got a first name IRL straight out of the Old Testament; in fact, if you’re of the Judeo-Christian tradition you’d believe it was the original female first name. It’s got three friggin’ letters, two of which are identical. And yet, people spell it wrong ALL THE TIME. They also frequently think it’s short for something else, like Evelyn. Does this make me less employable? If so, then I pity the kid whose parents decided to give him a nice, traditional Old Testament name like Mehtuseleh, or, say, Lot. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/90 "2002-12-13T23:01:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Plus get over slavery already. It’s been four hundred years, cut your whining, straighten up, fly right and make something of yourself. I don’t hear about the Israelites bitching about the Egyptitans for everything pre-Moses. This isn’t the forum for your lame-ass tirade. Take it to GD or the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/91 "2002-12-13T23:01:29Z")
So Shoshana, I feel for you! (And FTR, it’s also one of my all-time favorite girl’s names. I hope that if I ever have a daughter and name her Shoshana, that she doesn’t hate me. It couldn’t be worse than all the remarks I used to get about "where’s your fig leaf?) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/92 "2002-12-13T23:05:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Plus get over slavery already. It’s been four hundred years, cut your whining, straighten up, fly right and make something of yourself. I don’t hear about the Israelites bitching about the Egyptitans for everything pre-Moses. Well, as _you_ noted, you may be a cracker. 😉 You might want to note that it has not been four hundred years since slavery _ended_ in the U.S., but about 135 years. Following the period of slavery, there was an additional period leading to Jim Crow laws that was only effectively ended around 30 years ago. There are people alive today who can remember black families being forced into camps during floods of the Mississippi while the men were allowed out only to work on dikes to save white property while their own property was ruined. Fixating on history is not a good thing; dismissing history is equally foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raymond_luxury_yacht/32/4099_2.png) [@Raymond\_Luxury\_Yacht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raymond_Luxury_Yacht)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/93 "2002-12-13T23:28:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by raisinbread \* > \*\*[url=“[http://www.wesclark.com/ubn/top.html](http://www.wesclark.com/ubn/top.html)”] > And **jehovah68** my family had no part in American slavery and since I am Sicilian I do have a drop of moorish blood or so I’ve been told. I’d think folks should be proud of having Presidential surnames since it means they could have higher aspirations. Other than that most white, anglo surnames are pretty bland unless someone in the past did something pretty cool that was worth remembering. Plus get over slavery already. It’s been four hundred years, cut your whining, straighten up, fly right and make something of yourself. I don’t hear about the Israelites bitching about the Egyptitans for everything pre-Moses. \*\* **Raisin** , please reread what you first wrote in this thread. Never mind, I’ll simply transcribe the relevant part. You said: [COLOR=darkred]“I always assumed they have goofy looking names because their surnames are so common, completely lacking in any real heritage other than sounding like presidents or colors.” That is what _I_ commented on. Your statement is disparaging and completely ignores why their surnames are common - because of slavery. The argument “I had nothing to do with slavery” is, in a word, ridiculous. BTW, if _you_ aren’t too lazy, you may want to look up slavery + U.S. + dates on Google. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/94 "2002-12-14T00:43:45Z")
There are an awful lot of opinions, unsupported assertions, hijacks and generally poor behavior going on in this thread. They will stop. Now. This is not a request, and I am a very, very unhappy moderator right about now. ---
**Author:** ![Bandanaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@Bandanaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bandanaman)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/95 "2002-12-14T00:55:49Z")
Discussions about race relations are a bit touchy, eh **manhatten**. If a new thread were started, along the same lines, would it be closed also? People need to talk, discuss, whatever, and to get this stuff out in the open. What better place than here. Obviously, there’s a lot of things that need to be resolved, and although they may not happen here, today, why shut the door? Just MHO. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/96 "2002-12-14T01:08:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bandanaman \* > \*\* What better place than here. . \*\* Great Debates, or the BBQ Pit, considering the way the thread has gone so far. Read the forum descriptions. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/97 "2002-12-14T05:35:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SCSimmons \* > **My wife’s first name is Gýne** I think that’s quite beautiful and not in the least odd or weird. It’s the Classical Greek word for ‘woman’: [symbol]Gunh[/symbol]. I’ve thought it would be cool if I ever had another daughter to name her with the Proto-Indo-European word for woman: Gwena. > [@](#): > > \*\*my mother-in-law, the responsible party for the choice of names, currently lives in a single-wide in Lousiana with her fifth husband. Make of that what you will … \*\* To those Baptists here who got in a huff about my theory and offered their plain ordinary names as counterexamples: I didn’t mean to imply that _all_ Southern Baptists make up funny names. Only that this theory has been offered as an explanation for why there has been a higher incidence of funny names among Southern Baptists (both black and white) than among the general population. Of course kids are named without baptism! That was my whole point! The lack of infant baptism has removed one of the constraints on giving funny names, namely the pastor. There are plenty of examples of white Southern Baptists giving funny names. Cite: I finally found the book where I read this article. It’s an anthology of articles by linguists, _Reading about Language_, ed. by Charlton Laird and Robert M. Gorrell (New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1971). The article in question is “Getting Named in the Bible Belt” by Thomas Pyles, p. 98-103. Excerpted from his paper “Bible Belt Onomastics; or, Some Curiosities of Anti-Pedobaptist Nomenclature,” originally published in _Names: Journal of the American Name Society_ 7 (June, 1959). Pyles was professor of English and linguistics at Northwestern University. Here are some white Southern Baptist names cited by Pyles: “Buzz Buzz, Coeta, Merdine, Aslean, La Void, Arsie, Phalla, and Raz — all legal names borne by Bible Belters of repute.” Want some more examples he collected? “Zippie, Sippie, Vandie, Watie, Beadie, Lamie, Collie, Cossie, Ossie, Carlie, Omie, Fonzy, Lonzie, Lokie, Mammie, Toppy, Schiley, Mealy, Bussie, Jadie Obie, Nicy, Dicey, Ledgie, Raffie, Dilly, Coarsey, Sugie, Urksey, Skeety, and Ripsie seem to me particularly noteworthy…” Here’s another gem: “I must confess that I was brought up suddenly by the following item from the Gainesville _Sun_ (Oct. 1, 1952, p. 5): ‘Friends of Mr. A. W. **(Poopy)** Roundtree, Sr., will be interested to know that he is recuperating following an operation in Lake City.’ Similar, if less colorful, specimens, all taken from printed sources, are Tootie, Tucky, Bus, Tiny (male principal of an elementary school), and Lefty. . . .” “I am convinced that such forms as Buddy, Bubba, Bud, Buck, Sonny, Bunnie, and Buster … are legal names, not merely alternate names like those cited just previously, since they appear alone in formal connotations without quotation marks.” Here is another sample— “all are borne by substantial citizens: Lum, Dub, Teet, Quince, Zack, Zeph, Zeb, Clem, Wash, and Sim. Had I never been privileged to live in the Bible Belt, I should have thought to this day that their only existence was in the literature of backhouse humor. _Ish_, though it had no previous associations for me, seems to me nevertheless to have the same homely, down-to-earth flavor. It is borne by Hon. Ish W. Brant, Superintendent of Public Instruction of Duval County, Florida… When Hon. Ish was merely a political candidate for the political office which he now holds with grace and distinction, his campaign slogan was ‘Ish Is Everybody’s Wish.’ His opponents were Mr. Coke L. Barr and Mrs. Iva Sprinkle. . . .” Actually _ish_ is the Hebrew word for ‘man’. This theory that funny names are a result of Southern Baptist opposition to infant baptism is credited to Pyles. I’m just passing it along because I think it’s a plausible explanation. It was necessary to point out that not only blacks, but Southern whites give funny names too. Haven’t you seen _Steel Magnolias_? These examples from earlier decades are probably not so commonly seen today in the “New South.” It used to be more prevalent with white Southerners to give funny names, not so much any more. My point is that black naming patterns are not entirely a function of race and slavery, but also religion, a religion shared with Southern whites who also gave their kids an awful lot of funny names. In support of this theory, consider black Catholics: every single last one I’ve ever known gave their kids ordinary saints’ names. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/98 "2002-12-14T05:46:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Pyles was professor of English and linguistics at Northwestern University. Ah HA! Danged Chicago carpetbagger! ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/99 "2002-12-14T06:15:11Z")
I am a teacher. My class is a melting pot, as it is near an army base. Anyway I have some black students with more distinctive names (Queshawn, Katrell), and others with more conventional names (Justin, Michael). Also I have white students with names that a lot of people would think are “ethnic” (Rockeem, Dakota, Tyeesha, Shanay), as well as conventional (Amanda, Sammy). I think part of it is generational; as time goes on parents want to choose more original names. Perhaps black parents were a part of this trend first - in the late 1970’s, early 1980’s, but everyone else - to some degree - seems to have caught on. I only find it a little burdensome when there is a name that is just to complex because its unpronouncable (well I guess Zbignew would fit there), multipart (hypens and apostrophes in the name), or otherwise easily mangled in computerization - pretty soon we’ll probably just have a digital bar code anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2002, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402/100 "2002-12-14T12:29:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tlw \* > One day, someone will explain to me why white people are so worried about what our names are. I don’t know if it helps or not, but this particular white person doesn’t care what folks of any stripe name their kids, as long as it’s not something like “Shithead” or “Dumbass” > [@](#): > > The combination of the finger-pointing “haha, ain’t them darkies funny giving their kids these weird names” with the underlying “why can’t you just assimilate and get along and be just like us” attitude that goes hand in hand with it is insulting at the _very_ least. Think you hit it on the mark there. Aside from the idiots who laugh at _any_ unusual name (Ha-har - this guy is named _Ivan_! Har-har!), remember that slavery was justified at least in part by the attitude (which is bogus) that whites were somehow doing Africans a “favor” by “rescuing” them from “savagery”. The weird, effed-up notion that somehow slavery in “civilization” was better than freedom in “untamed” Africa. There are still white folks who believe this on a certain level, even if they won’t admit it. African-Americans who embrace parts of African cultures and given their kids names of non-European origin demonstrate that some folks, after centuries of forces assimilation, still find the white “civilization” to be lacking in some aspects. By refusing to assimilate, or (to their minds) conciously UNassimilating it tells these bigots that THEIR culture and race is NOT the be-all and end-all of mankind. Those whose self-worth is tied up to the pale color of their skin find this traumatic. They’re probably the same group that gets hysterical over Kwanzaa. The notion of an African-American holiday is no more strange than an Irish-American holiday such as St. Patrick’s day has become. No one is forced to participate, and frankly, Kwanzaa seems on the whole a pretty postive sort of thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-african-american-names/142402.md?page=6)