A couple of years ago a Dayanara from Puerto Rico became Miss Universe. She’s now married to Mark Anthony.
JRD, what you said applies perfectly well to all Latin America. Venezuelan soap operas and their tradition of making up names are a great influence too. I remember during the 80’s there were a bunch of girls named “Cristal” because of one of such soap operas.
My dad was against made-up names, mostly because he says it’s too much writing. In my family everybody has “classic” names. I think I’ll pick something more creative for my children, but nothing like “Santoraladorso”, like someone in my country did (It only makes sense if you speak Spanish).
And to those who discriminate based on a name… well, :mad:
But surely everyone does this to one degree or another…? There’s even a thread here dedicated to exactly that!
How can anyone read the name “happyheathen” and not make assumptions about that person’s ideological stand-point? There’s no way of knowing if “happyheathen” is precisely that, but the name on its own has a resonance which can force an opinion whether you like it or not.
People should be free to name kids whatever they like, but the thread linked to above surely demonstrates that the namename chosen will affect the way those kids are later perceived…?
You’re saying that a self chosen username on a message board is similar to a culturally indicative name given by your parents?
And does it not bother you at all that what tarpal is PERCEIVING from African American names is that said African Americans are low class and unqualified to work for him?
Yes, people do make assumptions based on a name, that is not the same as job discrimination, which is illegal in the US by the way, and disgusting. One thing is to have a private laugh another is to toss a curriculum.
BTW, there are two brothers, famous civil engineers in my country named Hitler and Mussolini. The parents were definitely whackos, the Catholic priest even refused to baptize them with those names. They are excellent professionals and their personalities are nothing like their namesakes’. Should they have been discriminated because of their names?
What does a name imply except that their parents probably didn’t even know who Hitler and Mussolini really were. Get it? Your name says nothing about you because you didn’t chose it. Furthermore, suggesting that she’s tossing the CVs of people whose names are seemingly African-American is rascist, don’t you think?
Well, thanks for providing evidence that racism is frequently associated with stupidity.*
I would also like to thank Tarpal for his/her voluntary contribution to the ongoing discussion of racism in this country. Frequently, we encounter posters who claim that all the laws from the 60s have forced all the companies to hire in a color-blind manner and that the various studies that have shown decided preferences to whites over blacks were all biased because whoever did the studies were predisposed to find those results.
Yet, here we have an actual voluntary statement that a member of a “large” company (however inflated in the eyes of the author), is deliberately violating exactly those Federal laws and the poster is claiming that s/he has the support of management.
In the “Hello, Carol…” scenario, since s/he (illegally) “tossed or buried” the other application, s/he really does not know whether Carol is the best qualified, s/he only knows that s/he disapproves of the name of the other applicant. That is really a good method of selecting personnel. (Must not have the skill set necessary to do a genuine interview, would be my guess.)
happyheathen and His4Ever, et al, are handles, chosen by mature people who wanted their names to communicate a definite message when they speak. Real-life names are given for a whole host of reasons apart from what the parents want other people to think of their child when they hear the name-- it could be of cultural or familial significance, or remind them of something significant, or because the syllables roll off the tongue, whatever. It’s usually a pretty complex and deeply important thing to the parents, but the child has no input (obviously). To punish the child for the name the parents selected is prejudiced, not to mention ridiculous in itself.
Moreover, let’s say the parents decided to give politically- or culturally charged names to their children, knowing that self-congratulatory jerks like tarpal will be prejudiced about them. Why is in incumbent upon the parents to name their kids something less objectionable to the ignoramuses of the world? Isn’t it, in fact, the reponsibility of the people who encounter the child to examine their own reaction to the name, and see if it reveals prejudice that needs to be corrected?
I bet tarpal and his/her ilk would flip right out if the ever met my Little Sis, Manana, or her brother DeCarlos. Sheesh, they’re black with Hispanic-based names! The sacrilege! And how about their classmates, Money and Fabulous? I don’t know about you, but if we’re going to judge on name alone, I’d love to have an employee named Money or Fabulous. Or wait, maybe it would be a better idea to actually interview them. Hmm.
I am none of the above and I am certainly not ashamed of anything. I am simply a realist and an astute businessman. Oh and before anyone wastes the board’s time trotting out the tired old “you beez a racist” :rolleyes: , don’t bother. I won’t slink away terrified of the label, nor will I attempt to mollify you with panicky apologies, denials or bleatings that we “celebrate diversity”, as so much of white corporate america has been taught to do. I do my job as I see fit and am not in the least bit afraid of Jesse Jackson-esqe racial blackmailing and shakedown schemes.
No, just that everybody makes judgements to some degree based purely on a person’s name.
Yes, it does and I think tarpal’s attitude is beneath contempt.
I agree completely.
No, of course it’s not incumbant upon parents to bow to the views of tossers like tarpal. However, even if I thought Adolf was a lovely name or that it was my grandfather’s name, I wouldn’t use it for my kids. So in that respect, yes… I would take into account the way the name will be perceived before giving it to my child. It’s a damn shame I have to do that, but I would still do so.
My housemate has an Indian name, and he has a nightmare using it on the phone. He’s not discriminated against because of it, but he does get v pissed off with having to spell it out constantly or else risk the bill or whatever come back addressed to some vague approximation of his name. A former g/friend of mind had a Croation last name, and the same thing used to happen to her.
I got the same thing in Africa and the Far East though, so at some point you have to be sensible and accept that ‘foreign-sounding’ names are going to cause confusion now and again. I completely accept, however, that it’s a different matter when you are denied a job purely on the basis of your name.
If you are a realist and astute businessman, why is it your policy to automatically reject resumes based on someone’s first name, which, under most circumstances, is chosen for them at birth by another person and does not reflect on the individual’s personality or skills? Wouldn’t it be more astute, from a business sense, to restrict your selection criteria to those variables that are indicators of performance, such as previous work experience and education, in deciding who to call in for interviews?
It would also appear that you would rather avoid the serious work required to hire good staff when the lazier method of using an ill-informed set of prejudices will eliminate some of your work, even at the risk of eliminating potentially excellent employees.
Why stop there? What black parents really should be doing to their kids is bleaching their skin, straightening their hair, and getting the fat sucked out of their lips. Those kinds of repairs, while drastic, are much more effective in preventing prejudice than giving them the right (read white) kind of names.
Well, no, Tarpal’s point was that the report linked to earlier showed that certain names perhaps reflect on the individual’s mother’s socioeconomic status (The whole “poor and lower-class women are more likely to give their children unusual names”). He then makes a whole bunch of assumptions based on that, which are unwarranted.
So would my name, which isn’t a standard US name, raise a “red flag” or suggest to you that I’m a “lower-class type, one who quite often has an ‘attitude’”?
What racist drivel! I’ll be taking my doctorate, two master’s degrees, and upper middle class upbringing to a different employer.
As the proud bearer of an unpronouncible name (IRL), I have found an example of why it is a good idea.
Anyone who calls me on the phone, and obviously is trying to pronounce my last name based on how it appears, is a telemarketer. Click!
It is a German name. I also enjoy watching people’s faces when they see my Korean-born children, realize what their last names are, and the wheels turn for a few seconds while they process the apparent conflict.
I can laugh with the rest of ‘em over outrageous first names, which are of course not limited to any one racial group. In fact, the Utah babies’ names are far funnier than any Lemonjello-type urban legend name.
Naming WILL affect the perception of the namee, and I believe some restraint is in order. A name that can be pronounced in five seconds or less is a good thing. Also, a name without obvious negative associations (Latrina) is probably an advantage in life. We aren’t entirely free from prejudice yet, unfortunately.
I happen to love African-American last names such as Love, Flowers, etc. (I know these are “white” names as well.) When the families were freed, they could either take on the names of their former captors (Washington, Jefferson, etc.) or they could just make something up. When they chose English words with beautiful associations (Love, etc.), I think this was a far better choice than choosing a “white” name for assimilation value.
My last name means nothing (that I know of). If my ancestors had chosen the name Flowers, simply because flowers are beautiful, I’d be proud.
I have held general manager positions at two different large corporations and like it or not you can believe me when I say this happens a lot. Once a person gets an interview it’s not such a big deal, but during the process of picking who to interview it can make a real difference. This probably doesn’t affect the number of minorities that are hired but it does skew the hiring process towards people with regular type names.
