# What is up with John McCain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 3, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751 "2010-12-03T02:52:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/21 "2010-12-03T13:01:10Z")
If the Obama Administration is for it, then McCain must fight it with every ounce of his energy. This man will never accept that the American people rejected him in favor of Obama, and will spend the rest of his days seething in anger. He’s a pathetic little shell of a man, and if Obama accomplishes nothing more than keeping this arrogant little prick out of the White House, we should still go ahead and add his face to Mt. Rushmore. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/22 "2010-12-03T13:16:41Z")
McCain just makes me sad mostly. Starting after 9/11 he just turned his back on everything I liked about him. It was maybe 2003 when he kowtowed over to Falwell. Every step of the way he keeps acting less and less like the 80s & 90s McCain I liked. Putting Palin on ticket was well beyond the last straw and this latest pure stupidity is nearly incomprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![Baracus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Baracus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baracus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/23 "2010-12-03T13:36:09Z")
> [@furt](#): > > **Elindil’s Heir** is, I think, entirely correct about his motivations. He’s a navy guy, and a guy of his generation. He can’t wrap his head around it, and he’s probably stunned that the report came out the way it did. The “trust the pentagon” rhetoric was sincere … but also because he never imagined they’d say what they’re saying. Yeah, I think that somebody needs to point out to him that he got out of the Navy before something like half of the current service members were even born. Things have changed, John. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/24 "2010-12-03T13:42:28Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > I think a lot of it is that he’s no longer the ‘go to’ guy on the news. For 20 years, McCain would always be in demand for the Sunday morning news shows. Now, with Fox, Palin, and the rest of the tea partiers, he’s no longer in demand or even relevant in contemporary politics. He’s as welcome as John Kerry is. Plus, he’s not even the face of Arizona any longer with Jan Brewer/Russell Pearce being more relevant these days. 😕 I think you must be thinking about the way that a rational, or at least consistent, media world would operate. Despite his essential meaninglessness (relative to other Senators or political leaders, he remains the go-to Republican guy for the media, especially the Sunday talk shows. > [@](#): > > Since the president took office 22 months ago, McCain has been on CBS’s “Face the Nation” five times (1.24.10, 10.25.09, 8.30.09, 4.26.09, and 2.8.09), NBC’s “Meet the Press” six times (11.14.10, 6.27.10, 2.28.10, 12.6.09, 7.12.09, and 3.29.09), ABC’s “This Week” four times (7.4.10, 9.27.09, 8.23.09, and 5.10.09), and “Fox News Sunday” six times (9.5.10, 4.18.10, 12.20.09, 7.2.09, 3.8.09, and 1.25.09). His appearance on CNN’s “State of the Union” this morning is his fifth since Obama took office (11.28.10, 1.10.10, 10.11.09, 8.2.09, and 2.15.09). [http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010\_11/026820.php](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_11/026820.php) ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/25 "2010-12-03T14:32:36Z")
I agree with those who suggest that his recent election fight scared him, and he realized that if he wants to keep serving he needs to move way right on conservative pet issues. Witness his turnaround on immigration as well. He’s jettisoned his integrity to appeal to the right wing of the party. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/26 "2010-12-03T14:37:25Z")
Not that I agree w/ McCain’s position, but we haven’t heard from all the leadership yet. Today, Congress hears from the heads of each branch of the military, so let’s see what they have to say. As for the survey, that wasn’t a survey to find out what the rank and file want. It was a survey that assumes DADT gets repealed, and was meant to figure out the best way to implement it. As Gates pointed out, we don’t ask the troops what our policy should be. We tell them what it will be. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/27 "2010-12-03T15:14:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As for the survey, that wasn’t a survey to find out what the rank and file want. It was a survey that assumes DADT gets repealed, and was meant to figure out the best way to implement it. As Gates pointed out, we don’t ask the troops what our policy should be. We tell them what it will be. Right. And while I support the lifting of DADT, I am against this show of using a survey as political cover for the Administration and Congress. This shows no leadership, and when actual concerns are raised I don’t feel like they will be given much heed. In particular, I feel that all of the branches could implement this change immediately except for the Marines - since they have a policy of housing junior enlisted unmarried personnel in two-person rooms. This has the potential to create far more friction than the other services, who have been moving more rapidly to private bedrooms in barracks. [Link showing the progress of the Marines moving to the 2-person in a room standard.](http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/benefits/housing/marine_beq_070917/) Two people in a room is more potentially disruptive than single rooms or any number greater than two living in close proximity, like in the field or on a ship. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/28 "2010-12-03T15:21:12Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > 😕 > > I think you must be thinking about the way that a rational, or at least consistent, media world would operate. Despite his essential meaninglessness (relative to other Senators or political leaders, he remains the go-to Republican guy for the media, especially the Sunday talk shows. > > [http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010\_11/026820.php](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_11/026820.php) Thanks, you beat me to it. He’s been on the Sunday political talkies 26 times over the past two years. Bet that’s more than Gore and Kerry _combined_ in the two years after they lost their Presidential elections. The MSM just has an inexplicable hard-on for McCain. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/29 "2010-12-03T15:26:56Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Right. And while I support the lifting of DADT, I am against this show of using a survey as political cover for the Administration and Congress. This shows no leadership What do you mean, no leadership? How do you mean, “political cover”? Obama’s been quite openly for DADT repeal for a long time, and has given speeches and all about it. He’s _been_ leading on this one, without seeking any political cover. But he needs 60 votes in the Senate, and is aware that the GOP Senators he needs for those last few votes, _they_ might need some political cover, or at least a removal of the last threadbare excuses for opposing this measure. What’s so unleaderlike about that? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/30 "2010-12-03T15:30:54Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Two people in a room is more potentially disruptive than single rooms or any number greater than two living in close proximity, like in the field or on a ship. Nonsense. Have you ever shared a room with a woman you weren’t romantically involved with? I have, many times - crashing on vacations or job-interview trips, mainly. And it’s never been an issue. I’m an adult, and I acted like one. I’ve also shared a room with a gay man - again, not an issue, save the fact that the fellow snored like mad. Adults can sleep in the same room without becoming overwhelming by the urge to boff one another. That’s what “adult” means. ETA: I didn’t mean to come after you quite that hard - I understand you mostly agree with me, and I respect your position. But the thing about a gay man alone in a shared room with another man being disruptive gives too much creedence to the anti-DADT arguments, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/31 "2010-12-03T15:55:38Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > . . . I am against this show of using a survey as political cover for the Administration and Congress. This shows no leadership, and when actual concerns are raised I don’t feel like they will be given much heed. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > What do you mean, no leadership? How do you mean, “political cover”? > > Obama’s been quite openly for DADT repeal for a long time, and has given speeches and all about it. He’s _been_ leading on this one, without seeking any political cover. Actually, I have been pretty disappointed in Obama’s lack of leadership on this issue, but I suspect that you are correct. I think that Obama is looking to avoid a direct confrontation with the military which dovetails with not handing the Far Right even more ammunition with which to hammer him in the just completed elections. So he took the position that while he favored the elimination of DADT, he wanted the military to support it first. I doubt that it made any difference in the elections and now he is stuck waiting for a lame duck Congress to “do the right thing” on their own, while he is concentrating on the economy, so that he is still not doing any leading on this issue. = = = On the OP, I don’t think that McCain really has all that much problem with gays in the military. He has made tepid statements against DADT and on the earlier prohibition on gays on one or two occasions. He is just so deathly afraid of the challenges within his own party that he will sell out any belief he has, (such as that torture is wrong), in order to avoid giving his Right wing foes more ammunition. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/32 "2010-12-03T16:02:36Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Right. And while I support the lifting of DADT, I am against this show of using a survey as political cover for the Administration and Congress. This shows no leadership, and when actual concerns are raised I don’t feel like they will be given much heed. I don’t see them using this for political cover. I think the press is not going a good job of explaining what the survey was and what it wasn’t. Gates was crystal clear in his testimony that this survey wasn’t supposed to ask whether but how. Obama has been behind this change from the beginning, and even if he hasn’t made it big priority, I don’t see him being duplicitous about it. This is a no brainer. Change the policy, and just tell the military to do it. End of story. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/33 "2010-12-03T16:08:33Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > In particular, I feel that all of the branches could implement this change immediately except for the Marines - since they have a policy of housing junior enlisted unmarried personnel in two-person rooms. This has the potential to create far more friction than the other services, who have been moving more rapidly to private bedrooms in barracks. Hardly. The guys who are squicked out can be assigned new roommates. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/34 "2010-12-03T16:27:31Z")
Lieberman has actually criticized McCain a little on this: [http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/02/lieberman-suggests-mccain-changing-his-standards-for-supporting-repeal-of-dadt/](http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/02/lieberman-suggests-mccain-changing-his-standards-for-supporting-repeal-of-dadt/) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/35 "2010-12-03T16:35:13Z")
Lieberman accusing somebody else of moving the goalposts is like Paris Hilton complaining about somebody else being famous for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/36 "2010-12-03T17:02:24Z")
Could be McCain really is a homophobe. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/37 "2010-12-03T17:40:44Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Lieberman has actually criticized McCain a little on this: [http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/02/lieberman-suggests-mccain-changing-his-standards-for-supporting-repeal-of-dadt/](http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/02/lieberman-suggests-mccain-changing-his-standards-for-supporting-repeal-of-dadt/) Lieberman’s been a big advocate of DADT repeal, though, and he was the one who sponsored the DADT repeal in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/38 "2010-12-03T18:23:27Z")
It’s age related dementia. Saw the same thing pretty much in Senator Pete Domenici (R-NM). Last time I saw him speak he went off on rant about EPA regulations run amok. Notable in that this was at the ground breaking for a new and improved wastewater treatment facility, and he walked over and posed with the shovels right after that speech. Less addled pols usually try for a little more separation in their hypocritical pandering. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/39 "2010-12-03T19:04:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Hardly. The guys who are squicked out can be assigned new roommates. Or better still, they can simply be ordered to grow up. The military isn’t summer camp - you sleep where you’re told. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751/40 "2010-12-03T19:10:10Z")
Sure, but you could easily say the same thing about men and women. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-up-with-john-mccain/562751.md?page=3)