# What is vegetable shortening called in Germany? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 7, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536 "2006-07-07T19:03:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/1 "2006-07-07T19:03:08Z")
In a thread over on LiveJournal I was trying to help explain what biscuits were to non-US folks, and I gave a recipe to help out. Well, someone said “wow, those sound really good, but I don’t know what vegetable shortening is”… they’re from Germany. I’m sure they have it there, but just under a different name, right? Can someone help me out? ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/2 "2006-07-07T19:30:33Z")
Disclaimer: I’m not someone who’s let into a kitchen by people who value their life. [http://dict.leo.org](http://dict.leo.org) has _Backfett_ (literally, baking fat) as a translation for shortening, so vegetable shortening would be _pflanzliches Backfett_. If the sort of vegetable fat that’s also used for frying would be suitable _Palmin_ (a popular brand of solid frying fat made from coconut oil) _might_ do. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/3 "2006-07-07T19:55:38Z")
> [@tschild](#): > > Disclaimer: I’m not someone who’s let into a kitchen by people who value their life. > > [http://dict.leo.org](http://dict.leo.org) has _Backfett_ (literally, baking fat) as a translation for shortening, so vegetable shortening would be _pflanzliches Backfett_. If the sort of vegetable fat that’s also used for frying would be suitable _Palmin_ (a popular brand of solid frying fat made from coconut oil) _might_ do. I did a search, but my limited German came up with nierenfett or rindertalg. Looks like I took a wrong turn somewhere. In the UK the stuff is sold under the brandname “Atora”. ---
**Author:** ![NBYodo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9a28c/32.png) [@NBYodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NBYodo)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/4 "2006-07-07T20:51:02Z")
Just don’t get Schmalz (lard). A friend of mine did that, thinking it was shortening and baked an apple cake that smelled like pork chops while cooking… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/5 "2006-07-07T21:04:26Z")
Babelfish translates “vegetable shortening” into Gemüseshortening - a tidy, idiom-free assembly of Gemüse for vegetable and shortening for well, shortening. Oddly enough, “Crisco” might also get the idea across. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/6 "2006-07-07T21:46:28Z")
Schmaltz is chicken fat. Lard is the fat of choice for flaky, crisp pastries and pie crusts. But nowadays people think it’s poison. And I’d rather use butter than shortening. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/7 "2006-07-07T21:53:11Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Schmaltz is chicken fat. > > Lard is the fat of choice for flaky, crisp pastries and pie crusts. But nowadays people think it’s poison. And I’d rather use butter than shortening. Lard is the best of all possible shortening for use in pie crusts. I regret that it gets harder and harder to find. At least people have finally realized that trans-fat margerine is more harmful than butter. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/8 "2006-07-07T22:07:38Z")
> [@Bill Door](#): > > Lard is the best of all possible shortening for use in pie crusts. I regret that it gets harder and harder to find. What’s the difference between lard and suet? ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/9 "2006-07-07T22:15:43Z")
Mmmmm, **[lard](http://www.lileks.com/institute/gallery/misc/lard.html)**! ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/10 "2006-07-07T22:19:39Z")
> [@Bill Door](#): > > Lard is the best of all possible shortening for use in pie crusts. I regret that it gets harder and harder to find. At least people have finally realized that trans-fat margerine is more harmful than butter. I don’t have a choice (re: lard) because I’m a vegetarian. The idea of lard kinda ooks me out a bit, though… ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/11 "2006-07-07T22:28:27Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > What’s the difference between lard and suet? Suet comes from beef, lard from pigs. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/12 "2006-07-07T22:32:29Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Schmaltz is chicken fat. I think usually it’s made from pigs. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/13 "2006-07-07T22:33:42Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > I don’t have a choice (re: lard) because I’m a vegetarian. The idea of lard kinda ooks me out a bit, though… I have tried vegetable fats, with not very good results. The trouble with most of them is that without being hydrogenated, the melting point is too low to form the little pockets of solid fat that you need form to get flakiness. You might try coconut oil, that has a melting point of 76 degrees, if the kitchen was cool enough and you didn’t work it very hard, or worked it on a chilled marble board, you might be able to make it work. I’m strictly a lard man, but if you try it, when come back, bring pie. Hey, in this thread, it’s not an affectation. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@Red\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/14 "2006-07-07T23:00:51Z")
> [@Bill Door](#): > > I have tried vegetable fats, with not very good results. The trouble with most of them is that without being hydrogenated, the melting point is too low to form the little pockets of solid fat that you need form to get flakiness. Could you use cold butter instead? I had to do that when I realized last minute I had no shortening the other day, and it came out tasting okay. I’m a crummy (crumby! hah) pie crust maker though, they always fall apart during the rolling. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/15 "2006-07-07T23:02:31Z")
> [@Bill Door](#): > > I have tried vegetable fats, with not very good results. The trouble with most of them is that without being hydrogenated, the melting point is too low to form the little pockets of solid fat that you need form to get flakiness. You might try coconut oil, that has a melting point of 76 degrees, if the kitchen was cool enough and you didn’t work it very hard, or worked it on a chilled marble board, you might be able to make it work. I’m strictly a lard man, but if you try it, when come back, bring pie. Hey, in this thread, it’s not an affectation. Well, I don’t like pie, so the chances of me needing to make a pie crust are slim to none 🙂 Shortening works fine for biscuits for me. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/16 "2006-07-07T23:20:21Z")
> [@kellner](#): > > I think usually it’s made from pigs. Hmmm, this word might be different in German and US english, although it’s not a common english word. Schmaltz entered US english via Yiddish, and Yiddish is a German dialect. However, those Jewish immigrants wouldn’t use pig fat, or butter in meat dishes, so they used chicken fat instead. I guess the more restrictive Yiddish usage must have stuck since we already had a word for pig fat in english. Does lard have a cognate in german? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2006, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/17 "2006-07-07T23:43:19Z")
> [@Red Rover](#): > > Could you use cold butter instead? I had to do that when I realized last minute I had no shortening the other day, and it came out tasting okay. I’m a crummy (crumby! hah) pie crust maker though, they always fall apart during the rolling. You should be okay if the baking time is short, or the oven temp is not too hot. The smoke point of butter is 300 deg F, which is a little low for baking, but if it tastes good, go for it. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/18 "2006-07-08T00:08:10Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I guess the more restrictive Yiddish usage must have stuck since we already had a word for pig fat in english. Ah, that seems to happen with any Yiddish terms in English. > [@](#): > > Does lard have a cognate in german? I couldn’t think of one and looked it up. It entered English from Old French, so the answer seems to be no. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/19 "2006-07-08T00:18:08Z")
You gotta be careful. I know someone who tried to order a pepperoni pizza and ended up with one topped with pepperonici. ---
**Author:** ![beckiemoriello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@beckiemoriello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beckiemoriello)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-vegetable-shortening-called-in-germany/363536/20 "2006-07-08T17:01:57Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > You gotta be careful. I know someone who tried to order a pepperoni pizza and ended up with one topped with pepperonici. Ooh! And I ordered a chili cheeseburger from BURGER KING and ended up with a cheeseburger with hot peppers!