# What is/was Marx's legacy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2013, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-was-marxs-legacy/669859 "2013-09-28T09:18:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-was-marxs-legacy/669859/61 "2013-10-05T18:04:55Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Really? Cholera and dengue fever are now present in Havana-diseases that disappeared in Pre-Castro Cuba in 1900. Balance that against Cuba being the only place in the region where original medical and pharmaceutical research are done, and having enough doctors to lend them to friendly countries. BTW, it’s not necessarily a problem engendered by Communism; [dengue fever is also coming back in Florida](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/30/us/in-florida-the-front-lines-of-a-war-with-mosquitoes.html?_r=0). We’ve had cholera cases here, too. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-was-marxs-legacy/669859/62 "2013-10-06T01:23:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Was that his theory? Did Marx even envision such an institution, as a governing as opposed to revolutionary organization? Socialism/ Communism was evolving during Marx’s lifetime and afterwards. For example, given that the Anarchist movement had failed to inspire a spontaneous decentralized rebellion by the masses, the necessity of a revolutionary vanguard was adopted as a central tenet. In particular Lenin reformulated Marxist theory to meet the pragmatic needs of the revolutionary movement in early 20th century Russia. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-was-marxs-legacy/669859/63 "2013-10-06T04:21:43Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Socialism/ Communism was evolving during Marx’s lifetime and afterwards. For example, given that the Anarchist movement had failed to inspire a spontaneous decentralized rebellion by the masses, the necessity of a revolutionary vanguard was adopted as a central tenet. In particular Lenin reformulated Marxist theory to meet the pragmatic needs of the revolutionary movement in early 20th century Russia. But, Lenin also came to power on the slogan “All power to the Soviets!” The [soviets](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_(council)) (the word simply means “council,” related to the verb _sovyetovat’,_ to counsel or advise) being self-organized workers’ councils – independent of the state, the company, and of any political party – that had emerged in the industrialized regions of Russia after the 1905 Revolution. A soviet was if a labor-union local did not merely demand concessions of management, but demanded to **be** management, and attempted to act as if it were, and sometimes managed to make it stick. So that’s what “All power to the Soviets!” means, workplace democracy. But before long the soviets were reduced to instruments of state/Party rule. Did Marx intend **that?** Did Lenin? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-was-marxs-legacy/669859/64 "2013-10-06T04:49:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, Lenin also came to power on the slogan “All power to the Soviets!” The [soviets](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_(council)) (the word simply means “council,” related to the verb _sovyetovat’,_ to counsel or advise) being self-organized workers’ councils – independent of the state, the company, and of any political party – that had emerged in the industrialized regions of Russia after the 1905 Revolution. A soviet was if a labor-union local did not merely demand concessions of management, but demanded to **be** management, and attempted to act as if it were, and sometimes managed to make it stick. So that’s what “All power to the Soviets!” means, workplace democracy. But before long the soviets were reduced to instruments of state/Party rule. Did Marx intend **that?** Did Lenin? Lenin certainly did. The idea of a party vanguard leading the masses through a communist revolution was basically Lenin’s interpretation of Marxism. Marx’s views are a little vaguer. He did envision a communist party having a role in the revolution. But Marx appears to have been somewhat more passive - he felt communism was inevitable and both a party and a revolution would arise through the progress of events. Lenin’s view was that a communist party could push the progress of events forward and create the revolution. ---
**Author:** ![knel3030](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecae2f/32.png) [@knel3030](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/knel3030)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-was-marxs-legacy/669859/65 "2013-10-06T08:49:14Z")
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