# What is with the mothers in Texas?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [May 30, 2007, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007 "2007-05-30T00:55:43Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/1 "2007-05-30T00:55:43Z")
I didn’t put this in the pit, because I really don’t feel any recreational outrage over this. I just want to know what is it with[young mothers in Texas](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070529/ap_on_re_us/children_killed;_ylt=AnpEtZSxGRemy9Uppon07ZcE1vAI)?
> [@](#):
>
> A young mother who may have been depressed apparently hanged three of her small daughters and herself in a closet using pieces of clothing and sashes, authorities said Tuesday. A fourth child, an 8-month-old daughter, was also found dangling in the closet but was rescued from the family’s mobile home.
>
> …
>
> Texas has seen a number of child killings by mothers in recent years.
>
> Less than five years earlier, another Hudson Oaks family was torn apart when Dee Etta Perez, 39, shot her three children, ages 4, 9 and 10, before killing herself.
>
> Andrea Yates drowned her five children in the family’s Houston bathtub in 2001. In 2003, Deanna Laney beat her two young sons to death with stones in East Texas, and Lisa Ann Diaz drowned her daughters in a Plano bathtub. Dena Schlosser fatally severed her 10-month-old daughter’s arms with a kitchen knife in 2004.
Does this happen in other states with the same frequency? Or is it just a Texas thing?
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### Author:  [@Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabin_Fever_1)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/2 "2007-05-30T01:01:21Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
I didn’t put this in the pit, because I really don’t feel any recreational outrage over this. I just want to know what is it with[young mothers in Texas](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070529/ap_on_re_us/children_killed;_ylt=AnpEtZSxGRemy9Uppon07ZcE1vAI)?Does this happen in other states with the same frequency? Or is it just a Texas thing?
[/QUOTE]
Texas is a big state - both in area, population and diversity.
With a proportional amount of WACKO’s as related to population.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/3 "2007-05-30T01:05:26Z")
[QUOTE=Cabin\_Fever]
Texas is a big state - both in area, population and diversity.
With a proportional amount of WACKO’s as related to population.
[/QUOTE]
So, per capita, you think this doesn’t happen more often in Texas than in other states? I guess we just aren’t hearing about all the maternal murder/suicides in New York and California, both of which have larger, more diverse populations.
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### Author:  [@Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabin_Fever_1)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/4 "2007-05-30T01:09:45Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
So, per capita, you think this doesn’t happen more often in Texas than in other states? I guess we just aren’t hearing about all the maternal murder/suicides in New York and California, both of which have larger, more diverse populations.
[/QUOTE]
No stats or cite, but perhaps that flows under the radar in those markets.
Sorry, but baby-killing, no matter what form, is big news here.
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### Author:  [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/5 "2007-05-30T04:35:30Z")
Baby killing, and family killing is big news everywhere.
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### Author:  [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/6 "2007-05-30T06:12:04Z")
It seems unlikely that Texas has a role per se, but I wouldn’t be surprised if these disturbed and depressed women get the idea from media reports, at least in part.
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### Author:  [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/7 "2007-05-30T06:14:46Z")
Well, if you had to live in Texas, wouldn’t you want to kill yourself too?
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### Author:  [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/8 "2007-05-30T07:06:47Z")
I don’t think that is done just out of depression – even post-partum depression. I would think it’s more likely to be post partum psychosis. That doesn’t help to answer you question.
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### Author:  [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/9 "2007-05-30T12:35:24Z")
The population of Texas has exploded over the last several decades with many people moving there because of a robust economy and thriving job market. My suspicion is that this has resulted in many families losing their traditional support network of close relatives, friends, etc. If and when things turn bad, possibly they’ve no one to turn to.
This woman was already the victim of domestic violence on the part of her husband. Could be that violence as a solution was something she’d long been exposed to. I don’t believe she spoke any English and obviously her financial plight was dire and prospects likely dim.
Whatever the reasons though, for her or others encountering seemingly unsurmountable obstacles, I’m leaning towards geographic boundaries being among the last of their motivational concerns.
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### Author:  [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/10 "2007-05-30T13:39:20Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
So, per capita, you think this doesn’t happen more often in Texas than in other states? I guess we just aren’t hearing about all the maternal murder/suicides in New York and California, both of which have larger, more diverse populations.
[/QUOTE]
Nitpick. Texas is the 2nd most populous state and has a bigger population than New York (about 23 million versus 19 million). Texas is also diverse as well as should be obvious by their large Hispanic population but also other groups.
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### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/11 "2007-05-30T14:50:26Z")
I knew as soon as this story hit that somebody would blame it on Texas. Glad I wasn’t disappointed.
> [@RandMcnally](#):
>
> Well, if you had to live in Texas, wouldn’t you want to kill yourself too?
.
No, not so far. Of course it has nothing on the beauty that is Nellis AFB, NV. Now there’s a place that would make me suck on a .38.
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### Author:  [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/12 "2007-05-30T15:22:31Z")
I live in Texas. My wife and I haven’t killed either of our children so far, although sometimes it’s tempting.
Texas has an area larger than New York, Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, and Virginia combined. So if, say, a sniper kills a bunch of people in Ohio, and another one kills a bunch of people in Virginia, what silly question would you ask?
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### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/13 "2007-05-30T15:24:34Z")
Hey, we’ve got nothing on Canada.
> [@](#):
>
> Three psychiatrists agreed Gabriela Babineau was depressed, anxious, disorganized and delusional when she smothered her child, 3-year-old Rossio Katherina Chaparro-Najar, in 1995. She was found not criminally responsible because, according to Mr. Justice David Watt, the 45-year-old woman lacked the capacity to know that her actions were morally wrong. Babineau was under the ``delusion’’ her estranged husband had sexually assaulted the child. The day previous to the killing, she had received papers summoning her to court for a custody hearing.
>
> Police found Babineau clinging to an eighth-floor balcony railing. But she was not so mentally disturbed that she actually jumped.
>
> A crown prosecutor agreed with the defence submission that an Oakville woman was incapable of knowing her actions were morally wrong when she repeatedly stabbed her sleeping 6-year-old son in 1997. It was viewed as being a point in her favour that the woman had never before been known to abuse her children.
>
> Rohini Maharaj, 33, was described by Brampton neighbours as a ``wonderful’’ mother, even after she killed herself and her two young sons by carbon monoxide poisoning in the garage. Maharaj was depressed because of a marital separation and financial problems.
>
> [snip]
>
> In Canada, in 1997, 64 children under the age of 12 were killed. Of those, 62 were killed by parents. Six in 10 of the victims were 5 years of age and under. That year also saw a large increase in the number of mothers accused of killing their children. That figure nearly doubled, from 13 in 1996 to 25 in 1997.
[Parents Who Kill](http://www.fathers.ca/parents_who_kill.htm)
I’m not actually picking on Canada, mind you, just pointing out that these things actually happen more often than you might realize and in a lot of different locations, not just Texas.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/14 "2007-05-30T15:26:02Z")
[QUOTE=kelly5078]
Texas has an area larger than New York, Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, and Virginia combined. So if, say, a sniper kills a bunch of people in Ohio, and another one kills a bunch of people in Virginia, what silly question would you ask?
[/QUOTE]
Does Texas have a larger population than all those states combined? Geographic area has little relevance here. If you have some data that supports your claim that this happens no more often in Texas than anywhere else, post it. Otherwise, you just sound defensive.
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### Author:  [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/15 "2007-05-30T15:29:20Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik]
Hey, we’ve got nothing on Canada.
[Parents Who Kill](http://www.fathers.ca/parents_who_kill.htm)
I’m not actually picking on Canada, mind you, just pointing out that these things actually happen more often than you might realize and in a lot of different locations, not just Texas.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but Canada has a larger area than Texas.
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### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/16 "2007-05-30T15:57:41Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Among children under age 5 years in the United States who were murdered in the last quarter of the 20th century, 61% were killed by their own parents: 30% were killed by their mothers, and 31% by their fathers (1). Estimates by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for 1994 indicated that homicide was the fourth leading cause of death for preschool children and the third leading cause of death among children from ages 5–14 years (2). In the United States, the incidence of homicide of children less than 1 year old has increased over the past quarter-century (1). Compared to other developed nations, the United States has the highest rate of child homicide: 8.0/100,000 for infants, 2.5/100,000 for preschool-age children (age 1–4 years), and 1.5/100,000 for school-age children (age 5–14 years) (3). In contrast, Canada’s reported rate for homicide of infants was less than half that of the United States: 2.9/100,000 (3). Furthermore, multiple authors have suggested that rates of child murder by parents are underestimated in epidemiological studies of child death (4–6)
[Child murder by mothers: a critical analysis of the current state of knowledge and a research agenda.](http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/162/9/1578)
> [@](#):
>
> Perhaps more revealing than the differences in why they kill their offspring are the differences between how fathers and mothers do so. For one thing, parental murderers tend to be highly physical. According to a 1988 survey done by the U.S. Justice Department, while 61 percent of all murder defendants used a gun in 1988, only 20 percent of the parents who killed their children used one. Children were drowned and shaken, beaten, poisoned, stabbed, and suffocated. These methods betray a certain “craziness” in both genders—they betray an intense passion and a lack of planning. But a study by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children shows that fathers are far more violent. And mothers frequently dispose of the corpses in what researchers call a “womblike” fashion. Bodies are swaddled, submerged in water, or wrapped in plastic. Moreover, the NCMEC study showed that while the victims of maternal killings are almost always found either in or close to the home, fathers will, on average, dispose of the bodies hundreds of miles away. All these behaviors suggest that women associate these murders with themselves, their homes, and their bodies
>
> None of the arguments here assumes that there is no such thing as postpartum depression or, in rarer cases, postpartum psychosis—a deep break from reality that affects less than one in 500 new mothers. Andrea Yates is actually a good example of someone who was overdetermined to experience some kind of psychotic break that would end tragically. **But Yates is only one of hundreds of mothers who kill every year** , and while complete psychotic breaks explain why some of this homicidal rage and violence is turned upon one’s own children, it doesn’t account for either the staggering numbers of maternal homicides or for society’s leniency toward women in these cases.
[When Parents Kill: Why fathers do it. Why mothers do it.](http://www.slate.com/?id=2063086)
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### Author:  [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/17 "2007-05-30T16:04:45Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
Does Texas have a larger population than all those states combined? Geographic area has little relevance here. If you have some data that supports your claim that this happens no more often in Texas than anywhere else, post it. Otherwise, you just sound defensive.
[/QUOTE]
This is truly a red-letter day, because this Coloradoan is going to bat for Texas.
To answer your question, Texas’ population is just under 23,000,000, while the combined populations of Virginia, Ohio, New York, Pennsylvania, Indiana and Kentucky is just under 55,000,000. But population isn’t the point. Texas is also larger than any four states west of the Mississippi, except California and Alaska, and pretty much has the same population as the rest of the western states put together except California. Take any area of the continental U.S. that doesn’t include New York or California and you’ll find as many as five states with combined populations somewhere under 35,000,000. The point is, the deaths in Texas were widely scattered across an area as large as any three, four or five other states on the continent, and as diverse and dense as ALMOST any three, four or five states on the continent. If you make a pin map of the deaths in Texas and superimpose it over the rest of the U.S., you’ll see that the deaths spread out over a wide area. That’s the point \*\*kelly \*\* was trying to make, and I think it’s a valid one.
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### Author:  [@TroubleAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroubleAgain)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/18 "2007-05-30T20:07:04Z")
[QUOTE=Duke of Rat]
I knew as soon as this story hit that somebody would blame it on Texas. Glad I wasn’t disappointed.
.
No, not so far. Of course it has nothing on the beauty that is Nellis AFB, NV. Now there’s a place that would make me suck on a .38.
[/QUOTE]
Try being a Floridian for a while. It ain’t any better.
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### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/19 "2007-05-30T20:50:16Z")
[QUOTE=TroubleAgain]
Try being a Floridian for a while. It ain’t any better.
[/QUOTE]
Why I wouldn’t be caught _dead_ in that… 😃
Just kidding, but I think some people really are serious about this stuff sometimes.
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### Author:  [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2007, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-with-the-mothers-in-texas/406007/20 "2007-05-30T21:00:32Z")
Maybe Texas mamas don’t want their babies to grow up…
to be cowboys.
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