# What is Wonder Woman exactly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 10, 2013, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861 "2013-08-10T12:32:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/21 "2013-08-10T18:30:43Z")
Can someone please expand on her weakness of being tied up by a man? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/22 "2013-08-10T18:35:43Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Can someone please expand on her weakness of being tied up by a man? While she’s hardly alone in this (one of James Bond’s most famous moments involves him stuck in a death trap), Wonder Woman’s creator was a fan of bondage, so his comic naturally played to his interests. [Here are some examples.](http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=34&Itemid=51) ---
**Author:** ![Girlundone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Girlundone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girlundone)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/23 "2013-08-10T19:32:28Z")
This is really interesting because I was at a fetish conference last year and there were several women dressed as Wonder Woman. I didn’t understand the significance, but it’s all coming together now. She has quite the cult following in the BDSM world. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/24 "2013-08-10T19:36:27Z")
> [@planetcory](#): > > I think the Thor movie is now the biggest stumbling block facing a WW movie, though. To the uninitiated, they’re superficially the same story. And now they have to find a totally fresh vaguely plausible approach that isnt ‘godlike alien’. Oh, no worries. Thor is a Marvel universe godlike alien. Wonder Woman is a DC universe godlike alien. Totally different. > [@Girlundone](#): > > This is really interesting because I was at a fetish conference last year and there were several women dressed as Wonder Woman. I didn’t understand the significance, but it’s all coming together now. She has quite the cult following in the BDSM world. I know there’s basically a slim-to-f\*\*\* all chance that today’s filmmakers will keep Wonder Woman true to her non-PC historical origins, but I really want to see [this](http://cdn.motinetwork.net/demotivationalposters.net/image/demotivational-poster/0908/papa-spank-superman-wonder-woman-wonderwoman-justice-league-demotivational-poster-1249299190.jpg) scene in a Justice League movie. ---
**Author:** ![Girlundone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Girlundone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girlundone)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/25 "2013-08-10T19:43:50Z")
> [@](#): > > I know there’s basically a slim-to-f\*\*\* all chance that today’s filmmakers will keep Wonder Woman true to her non-PC historical origins, but I really want to see this scene in a Justice League movie. I would definitely buy a ticket, and I’m not even a comic fan. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/26 "2013-08-10T19:43:54Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Can someone please expand on her weakness of being tied up by a man? I always took it as somewhat symbolic. Being tied up by a man was supposed to stand in for being tied down by one, i.e. falling in ‘love’. But you couldn’t put that in a comic book. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/27 "2013-08-10T19:48:44Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I’m not saying she’s an important character in the DCU. I’m saying she’s the crucial character for them to get right if they want the movie to work. You aren’t seriously arguing that they’d try to do a Justice League film and just leave her out, are you? Yeah, I am. Why is this so shocking to you? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/28 "2013-08-10T19:57:38Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Yeah, I am. Why is this so shocking to you? Who’s shocked? Cast your film however you like, I just think it would be like leaving McCoy out of a _Star Trek_ movie. At the very least, she’d need to be the surprise near the end, setting up a solo film or the JL sequel film. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/29 "2013-08-10T20:20:53Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Who’s **shocked**? Cast your film however you like, I just think it would be like leaving McCoy out of a _Star Trek_ movie. At the very least, she’d need to be the surprise near the end, setting up a solo film or the JL sequel film. > [@](#): > > \*\*You aren’t seriously arguing \*\*that they’d try to do a Justice League film and just leave her out, are you? Bolding mine. Amazingly, that does sounds as though I shocked you. You specifically questioned that I could be “serious” about not using Wonder Woman. If they can’t do her character well, they shouldn’t do her. I don’t really care, particularly, and I doubt anyone beyond DC fans or the handful of people who recall the old tv show gives a damn. She’s not really an a-list character and hasn’t been in decades, nor is she really a terribly distinct personality in her own right. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/30 "2013-08-10T20:41:33Z")
I think where our communication is failing is that you seem to think I think _your_ idea of leaving her out is untenable whereas what I actually believe is that those responsible for making the JL film probably think that they cannot possibly leave her out. > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > If they can’t do her character well, they shouldn’t do her. Concur. But that doesn’t mean I expect them to actually do that. > [@](#): > > DC fans or the handful of people who recall the old tv show gives a damn. She’s not really an a-list character and hasn’t been in decades, nor is she really a terribly distinct personality in her own right. I believe that you are vastly under-estimating the number of people who would care if Wonder Woman were omitted from a JL film, even if only on principle. I do not pretend to know the minds of feminists world-wide, but the few that I am close to see Wonder Woman as a character who represents them in comics. Imagine if the DCU had one African-American character who was anywhere near as prominent in the pantheon as Wonder Woman: imagine John Stewart had succeeded Abin Sur instead of Hal Jordan. Now imagine Warner Bros making a JL film and just saying, “Nah, he’s a week character, we’re gonna leave him out.” ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/31 "2013-08-10T20:43:33Z")
Just gonna take a moment to rant… For a period of time, William Messner-Loebs was writing Wonder Woman. He emphasized a lower-power, more “human” kind of story. e.g., WW got a job at a fast-food restaurant, or WW volunteered at an abused-woman shelter. He emphasized love, compassion, caring, and morality John Byrne was tagged as the new writer, and, in the very first damn issue, turned her into a cold, callous, monster. She’s standing literally over a dead man’s body, talking about guns and ammunition. Wonder Woman is still a plaything of men, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/32 "2013-08-10T22:00:45Z")
I’m a non-comics pleb who only watched the crazy awesome DCAU JL series, but a JL movie without Wonder Woman would strike me as pretty weak. Then again I was never exposed to the fan community much, so for all I know she’s considered the worst character. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/33 "2013-08-10T22:08:58Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > I think where our communication is failing is that you seem to think I think _your_ idea of leaving her out is untenable whereas what I actually believe is that those responsible for making the JL film probably think that they cannot possibly leave her out. Fair enough. But given that the next DC movie apparently won’t include her, and that there are apparently no announced plans for her, there’s definitely no guarantee that she will show up. > [@](#): > > I believe that you are vastly under-estimating the number of people who would care if Wonder Woman were omitted from a JL film, even if only on principle. I do not pretend to know the minds of feminists world-wide, but the few that I am close to see Wonder Woman as a character who represents them in comics. Likely length of controversy? Not much, because the people who will raise it will probably look silly trying to argue that a studio isn’t spending a couple hundred million on a likely-mediocre film, particularly after a television revisit failed to get off the ground a few years back. All they’d have to do is show some “Pants To Be Darkened” and _nobody_’d be calling for a Wonder Woman movie. Since you brought it up, I don’t expect them to include the Stewart Green Lantern, either. Or any Green Lantern. It’s quite possible the JLA movie will end up being three white guys (Batman, Superman, and the Flash). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/34 "2013-08-10T23:17:23Z")
Can they get Adrian Grenier to play Aquaman? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/35 "2013-08-10T23:42:12Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > It’s quite possible the JLA movie will end up being three white guys (Batman, Superman, and the Flash). Maybe, but that wouldn’t be the Justice League. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/36 "2013-08-10T23:52:40Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Wonder Woman’s creator was a fan of bondage Not just a fan of it, Marston built a psychological theory around it. (Despite it being Diana’s weakness, in Marston’s framework, submission was a strength - specifically, a ‘feminine’ strength, and superior to the ‘masculine’ strength of domination.) ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/37 "2013-08-10T23:53:49Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Amazingly, that does sounds as though I shocked you. You specifically questioned that I could be “serious” about not using Wonder Woman. Honestly, you sound like a comics fan who thinks of WW in the realm of other comic book characters. You have think like a film producer who has to work with the expectations of the movie-going public. And the public thinks of WW as one of the top tier comics characters. She’s up there with Batman, Superman, The Hulk, Captain America, and Spider-Man for recognizably. A true JL movie wouldn’t be able to leave her out in the eyes of the general public. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/38 "2013-08-11T00:35:26Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The opposite of _my_ usual reaction. > For a while there, Wonder Woman had more in common with Captain Marvel, i.e. a normal-ish person given the powers of the gods. The two of them are actually a pretty logical pairing, and I was pretty impressed that the writer of the “Flashpoint” alternate-history miniseries imagined Diana and Aquaman entering into a political marriage to unify Themyscira and Atlantis. Clever. > > The casting is tricky. I’d like to see the role go to an established heptathlete-type, i.e someone who looks like she could hurl a javelin with intent. So, among world-class athletes who are also tall, somewhat exotic, gorgeous and are (or can be with a wig) dark-haired… > > Does Leryn Franco speak English? Gina Torres. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/39 "2013-08-11T01:19:03Z")
> [@planetcory](#): > > I think the Thor movie is now the biggest stumbling block facing a WW movie, though. To the uninitiated, they’re superficially the same story. And now they have to find a totally fresh vaguely plausible approach that isnt ‘godlike alien’. What’s your concern, that people will think Wonder Woman is a rip off of Thor? I doubt it; everyone already knows Wonder Woman. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861/40 "2013-08-11T01:41:56Z")
I don’t think there’s going to be a _Justice League_ movie. They’ve tried, but all they’ve ended up with is _Batman vs Superman_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wonder-woman-exactly/665861.md?page=3)