# what is wrong with guys?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 20, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825 "2003-01-20T17:40:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/41 "2003-01-21T15:31:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by av8rmike \* > \*\*::clears throat:: > Well, I was offering a different kind of services… 😉 \*\* Actually, i realized that about a millisecond after i posted. You dirty dog! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/42 "2003-01-21T15:53:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > \*\*Anyway, if a man wore a suit, elevator shoes or a bratwurst so as to add several inches to his physique, he’s seen as a fraud. I don’t angle any clothes to make myself look slimmer. If I’m in need of that, I’d better change my diet or hit the gym. > > Bleaching hair the shade of melted butter is not a grooming issue. Neither is jamming the bosom up to the collarbone in a padded bra. And control-top pantyhose is a grooming issue? Shaving _is_ a grooming issue, but if you shave, you really shave. You’re not faking anything. > > So the deception is okay because he will find out? A woman does not have to spend a year and a half with a guy to find out things like what he does for a living, what his corporate title is, what neighborhood he lives in, etc. Women check this things out right away, but an awful lot of them coyly deny these things are important. On the issue of honesty, it is entirely dishonest to say that you are dating a man because of his “sense of humor” or “his nice personality” when the first thing you checked was his bank balance.\*\* Actually, Pucky old chap, you seem to be little uninformed if you believe that it’s only women who do such things. While you might be generally correct about control-top pantyhose, many of the other things you cite are actually done quite frequently by men. Coloring hair, for instance. My hair is currently its natural color, but that is mainly because i’m in grad school and can’t afford the extra $50 it costs to get it done (and i’m too gutless to do it myself). But i’ve had my hair done a variety of different shades in the past, and it never once occurred to me that i was being dishonest with anyone. Nor do i think women who color their hair are being dishonest. Hell, if a guy is willing to go out with a woman just because of her hair color, he deserves whatever he gets, IMHO. And, while **you** might go on a diet or hit the gym in order the improve your body, one of the fastest-growing areas of cosmetic surgery in the US right now is well-heeled men having things like pectoral implants, calf implants, bicep implants, and facial surgery in order to appear more athletic and attractive. Also, regarding the whole bank balance thing, have you considered the possibility that some women seek a man who makes decent money because women still make up a disproportionate percentage of low-paid employees, and often have less job security? And even women who earn decent money often have to find a guy who earns more because so many men seem to feel somehow emasculated if their girlfriends or wives earn more than they do. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/43 "2003-01-21T16:26:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > So the deception is okay because he will find out? > A woman does not have to spend a year and a half with a guy to find out things like what he does for a living, what his corporate title is, what neighborhood he lives in, etc. Women check this things out right away, but an awful lot of them coyly deny these things are important. On the issue of honesty, it is entirely dishonest to say that you are dating a man because of his “sense of humor” or “his nice personality” when the first thing you checked was his bank balance. Makeup and hair dye are advertised on TV; it’s not like they’re “super secret man-catching gear for women”. Like it or not, control top pantyhose and underwire bras are pretty standard women’s clothing items; I find it difficult sometimes to find the non-control top version. Shouldn’t pantyhose itself be on your deception list - that woman’s legs aren’t really that shade of tan (or black, or white, or navy, or…)! How about plucking eyebrows - is it a dealbreaker if your girlfriend was born with brows that would rival those of Brooke Shields, but she prunes them biweekly into nice, tidy crescents? Are hair stylists part of the conspiracy to Help Women Trick Men, when they perm, straighten, or blow-dry hair into forms it doesn’t usually take for that woman? How about contact lenses or laser eye surgery - is someone covering up their poor vision? The “deception” of makeup, hair dye, and clothing like shoulder pads and so forth (by the way, men’s suits are _standardly_ tailored the way I listed) isn’t important because it doesn’t really matter. It’s as superficial as judging someone by their bank balance. What matters is treating your SO with respect, and being able to believe the words they say. The guy in the OP is trying to play both women along by lying to them about his emotions for them. I think there’s just a teeny bit of difference between that and “you mean your cheeks aren’t naturally that rosy and you get a zit now and then?” And watch where you’re slinging those generalizations, anyway. Just because the women you meet do those things, doesn’t mean all of them do - or just because you and the guys you know **don’t** dye their hair, wear makeup (yes, some men do to cover zits, scars, blotches, birthmarks, etc.), get plastic surgery, wear something to cinch that gut in, etc., doesn’t mean that none of them do. **mhendo** nicely pointed that out. (If it matters, I only started wearing makeup, getting underwire bras, and dyeing my hair after getting married - and my husband had poorer future job prospects than I when we met during college.) ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/44 "2003-01-21T18:33:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > **Also, regarding the whole bank balance thing, have you considered the possibility that some women seek a man who makes decent money because women still make up a disproportionate percentage of low-paid employees, and often have less job security?** You just _know_ there’s always got to be a Sir Galahad trying to impress the chicks by parroting that stuff, but here goes. Everyone who picks up my trash? Men. Everyone who dangles 20 stories in the air washing the windows on my office building? Men. Never seen a woman out there, not one. Every person I’ve ever hired to get up on my roof for some job or another? Men. Most of the world’s most dangerous jobs are done by men, so that they make up something like 95% of all on-the-job fatalities. This is prolly a topic for a whole nother thread – like the fact that low-paid work like waitressing tends to be safer (it’s indoors) flexible and temporary. But this whole business about some women seeking out men with bucks for pure, angelic, soulful reasons? Gwan. She wants to seek out a man with money, fine. Just _please_ don’t wag your tail in front of the guy in the Armani and tell us it’s because he’s kind to animals, etc. > [@](#): > > And even women who earn decent money often have to find a guy who earns more because so many men seem to feel somehow emasculated if their girlfriends or wives earn more than they do. Have you ever noticed that women like Jane Fonda (well-off movie star) or Mary Tyler Moore (well-off TV star) tend to marry execs with mega-bucks? Maybe it’s because the _women_ don’t respect a man who makes less. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/45 "2003-01-21T18:36:27Z")
And if mhendo is a woman, I retract the gratuitous Sir Galahad snipe. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/46 "2003-01-21T18:56:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ferret Herder \* > **Like it or not, control top pantyhose and underwire bras are pretty standard women’s clothing items.** And lying is still pretty much part of politics. The prevalence of them don’t make them honest. > [@](#): > > How about plucking eyebrows - is it a dealbreaker if your girlfriend was born with brows that would rival those of Brooke Shields, but she prunes them biweekly into nice, tidy crescents? Shields looks good with her eyebrows. I applaud her decision to keep them that way. > [@](#): > > The “deception” of makeup, hair dye, and clothing like shoulder pads and so forth (by the way, men’s suits are _standardly_ tailored the way I listed) isn’t important because it doesn’t really matter. It’s as superficial as judging someone by their bank balance. What matters is treating your SO with respect, and being able to believe the words they say. I agree. But there are lots of women who chase a man with money and then try to play it that they really love him for some inner soulful quality. Many women present a complete false image of themselves, right down to a mask of makeup, deceptive clothing, and hypocrisy about what they want, and then scream “why can’t men be honest?” That bugs me. > [@](#): > > And watch where you’re slinging those generalizations, anyway. I’d watch 'em if I could find 'em in any of my posts. I do believe I’ve qualified everything with “many” or “some.” > [@](#): > > Just because the women you meet do those things, doesn’t mean all of them do And just because all of them don’t doesn’t mean none of them do. Did I say that right? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/47 "2003-01-21T20:05:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > **Everyone who picks up my trash? Men. Everyone who dangles 20 stories in the air washing the windows on my office building? Men. Never seen a woman out there, not one. Every person I’ve ever hired to get up on my roof for some job or another? Men. Most of the world’s most dangerous jobs are done by men, so that they make up something like 95% of all on-the-job fatalities. This is prolly a topic for a whole nother thread – like the fact that low-paid work like waitressing tends to be safer (it’s indoors) flexible and temporary. But this whole business about some women seeking out men with bucks for pure, angelic, soulful reasons? Gwan. She wants to seek out a man with money, fine. Just _please_ don’t wag your tail in front of the guy in the Armani and tell us it’s because he’s kind to animals, etc.** And just where, in this little rant, is there a single point to refute my earlier post, which was, if you recall, about job security and pay levels, not on-the-job safety? And nowhere did i ever say anything remotely like “women [seek] out men with bucks for pure, angelic, soulful reasons.” All i was doing was providing a corrective to your overzealous generalizing. > [@](#): > > \*\*Have you ever noticed that women like Jane Fonda (well-off movie star) or Mary Tyler Moore (well-off TV star) tend to marry execs with mega-bucks? Maybe it’s because the _women_ don’t respect a man who makes less. \*\* Again, i’m sure some women do feel this way. But i never said that none of them did. And your two extremely atypical examples are not going to convince me that this is the norm. > [@](#): > > **And just because all of them don’t doesn’t mean none of them do.** I can’t recall anyone, least of all me, ever saying that they do. As i said before, my points were simply designed as a corrective to your generalizations. And i notice that you completely ignored the substantive points i made regarding men who color their hair, get cosmetic surgery, etc. You do have an interesting debating technique, however: 1. Make a simplistic, reductionist generalization. 2. When other people make points that call your generalization into question: (a) ignore the substantive issues (b) accuse those people of generalizing 3. Repeat as necessary. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/48 "2003-01-21T20:39:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > \*\*Everyone who picks up my trash? Men. Everyone who dangles 20 stories in the air washing the windows on my office building? Men. \*\* Well, in my city, trash collectors make about $26/hour, window washers about $18/hour, roofers about $20/hour, plus overtime for $30/hour. Waitresses make $5.25 an hour, plus tips of about $7/hour for a total of $12.25. (Tips are based on what an average waitress can expect to make per hour, averaged over an entire week. On a weekend, $15/hour in tips might happen, but on a Monday, you’re looking at more like $3-5/hour.) Receptionists start at about $10/hour. Anyhow - your point isn’t valid - even men in Blue Colar jobs are paid more than women in Pink Colar jobs - is this because they hang from buildings and what not? Probably, but that doesn’t change the bottom line at the end of the day. And once again, I have to point out that this: > [@](#): > > **Maybe it’s because the women don’t respect a man who makes less.** is obnoxious. Are there some women like this? No doubt. But again, you’re phrasing suggests that you’re painting all women with the same brush. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/49 "2003-01-21T21:35:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > **And just where, in this little rant, is there a single point to refute my earlier post, which was, if you recall, about job security and pay levels, not on-the-job safety?** Excuse me. I didn’t know you had the right to screen out all factors that don’t fit your argument. You claimed, “women still make up a disproportionate percentage of low-paid employees, and often have less job security” (I’d like cites.) My point is valid because dangerous or unpleasant work often has to pay more to attract workers, hence the applicablity to “low-paid employees.” Waitressing, etc., does not have to pay a lot or offer job security because so many people are willing to do it. The market determines this. > [@](#): > > And nowhere did i ever say anything remotely like “women [seek] out men with bucks for pure, angelic, soulful reasons.” All i was doing was providing a corrective to your overzealous generalizing. If you are so opposed to generalizing, why haven’t you said anything about the title of this thread? > [@](#): > > Again, i’m sure some women do feel this way. But i never said that none of them did. Terrific. And I said it was dishonest of them to chase money and pretend they don’t. > [@](#): > > And i notice that you completely ignored the substantive points i made regarding men who color their hair, get cosmetic surgery, etc. Ye olde usenet trick. Claim that the part of a longwinded post that was ignored was “substantive” or “ignored.” Yawn. I trimmed it for space rathen than belabor the point that it’s fake for anyone to do it. > [@](#): > > 1. Repeat as necessary. Great. Getting nagged on the board. ---
**Author:** ![Tir\_Tinuviel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tir\_Tinuviel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tir_Tinuviel)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/50 "2003-01-21T21:43:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jack Batty \* > \*\*Well. People _are_ assholes. > > Heck. I’m a people. > > And _I’m_ an asshole. \*\* heee heee heeeeee “Batty” an “Arsehole”… heeeee! 😃 [sub]You know I love you really. [/sub]😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/51 "2003-01-21T21:43:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > \*\*Well, I went to college with a girl that used to stuff a banana up her crotch so her “Sugar Daddy” would give her money for smokes and beer. > > Does that count? \*\* Yup, that counts. Sounds like a couple of marriages I know of. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/52 "2003-01-21T21:46:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > **Anyhow - your point isn’t valid - even men in Blue Colar jobs are paid more than women in Pink Colar jobs - is this because they hang from buildings and what not?** So then the point _is_ valid. > [@](#): > > … but that doesn’t change the bottom line at the end of the day. So? Plumbers probably make a lot more money than a receptionist. If the receptionist objects to this, there is nothing stopping her or him from going to plumbing school. The receptionist gets less money because it’s a hirer’s market. > [@](#): > > Are there some women like this? No doubt. But again, you’re phrasing suggests that you’re painting all women with the same brush. The same brush when I cited _two specific women?_ Note: Pucky said there are four president’s heads on Mt. Rushmore. Therefore, Pucky said there are presidents on every mountain. And if you’re so all-fired opposed to generalizations, when are you going to weigh in on the title of this thread? Pretending to oppose generalizations is dishonest unless you do. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/53 "2003-01-21T22:03:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > And if you’re so all-fired opposed to generalizations, when are you going to weigh in on the title of this thread? Pretending to oppose generalizations is dishonest unless you do. The original poster first broadened it to include all people’s assholic dating tendencies to not be honest about their feelings, then retracted it to apparently only having had problems with the guys she dated. She also denied the possibilities you offered. I think that takes care of her generalization issue; you seem to be the one left leveling generalizations at women. Before you say no, it’s _some_ women, you’re ignoring people when they cite that _some_ men do the exact same things that women do. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/54 "2003-01-21T22:12:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > **Excuse me. I didn’t know you had the right to screen out all factors that don’t fit your argument.** The issue is that you presented your post as a direct response to mine, yet failed even to address the issues i was talking about. These “factors” that you are talking about, even if they are as you describe them, are beside the point when addressing the issue of why women might want to find a man who earns more money. If a woman is not earning enough to live on by herself, the reasons for this (job difficulty, danger, etc.) are largely irrelevant in terms of her need to find someone to help support her. > [@](#): > > **You claimed, “women still make up a disproportionate percentage of low-paid employees, and often have less job security” (I’d like cites.) My point is valid because dangerous or unpleasant work often has to pay more to attract workers, hence the applicablity to “low-paid employees.” Waitressing, etc., does not have to pay a lot or offer job security because so many people are willing to do it. The market determines this.** Well, for information you could probably start with the BLS site that i linked to before and do a search - i’m sure you can manage that. And, even though your analysis of why waiting tables pays less is quite accurate, it is not germane. Even if women do avoid high paying jobs because they are dangerous, the reason for avoiding them does not remove the necessity, for some of these women, of finding a man who earns enough to help them get through life. The causes of these economic motivations might be complex, as you suggest, but it does not mean the motivations are not real and valid. > [@](#): > > **If you are so opposed to generalizing, why haven’t you said anything about the title of this thread?** Because, if you had bothered to look, the OP retracted this statement pretty early on, before i made my first contribution. > [@](#): > > **Ye olde usenet trick. Claim that the part of a longwinded post that was ignored was “substantive” or “ignored.” Yawn. I trimmed it for space rather than belabor the point that it’s fake for anyone to do it.** Just because you say it’s an old trick doesn’t make it invalid. You’ve spent most of your time on this thread emphasizing the dishonesty of women and downplaying that of men, such as: > [@](#): > > Let’s be honest about something. Woman says she’s dating a new guy and what’s the first question? “What’s he do for a living?” > > The other side of the coin is men checking out how a woman looks. Of course we do it. Most of us are honest enough to admit it. Yeah, men might admit this to one another, but i’ve rarely heard of a man who will admit this to a woman he is (or is not, for that matter) interested in. And isn’t honesty _between_ the sexes the key issue in this thread? Also, is it impossible for you to imagine that a question about what someone does for a living might actually not be primarily motivated by a desire to know that person’s income? While it does not completely define us as people, the sort of work we do, when placed in context with the rest of who we are, says something about us. If i met a woman and she told me that she worked for a conservative, “family values” think-tank, that would probably predispose me against having anything further to do with her, whether she made $20,000 at the job or $200,000. We all look for people who share certain elements of our own world-view, even if we do not always look for complete agreement. Indeed, the debates i have with my girlfriend on a variety of issues are one of the things i like about our relationship. I can think of nothing worse than being with someone who reflexively agreed with everything i said. Luckily, that doesn’t happen here on the Boards, either. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/55 "2003-01-21T22:15:42Z")
What **Ferret Herder** said. Besides, even if the OP did have a generalization in it, that doesn’t excuse you making huge sweeping ones with the biggest-ass brush you can find, particularly since the OP retracted the statement. But you carry right on. You’re making a really good impression. No, really. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/56 "2003-01-21T22:42:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ferret Herder \* > **…I think that takes care of her generalization issue** So let’s hear _you_ denounce the generalization, since you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about them. > [@](#): > > you seem to be the one left leveling generalizations at women. Nope. I never made any unqualified generalization about the female majority. You’re just one of those women who will not tolerate any criticism of women. Note: I do not apply that to all women. Just to you. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/57 "2003-01-21T22:51:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > **… Well, for information you could probably start with the BLS site that i linked to before and do a search - i’m sure you can manage that.** I am **not** doing your research for you. Put up or don’t. > [@](#): > > You’ve spent most of your time on this thread emphasizing the dishonesty of women and downplaying that of men … I will now emphasize your – not all women, _your_ – dishonesty for that remark. I cited examples of dishonesty I’ve seen among _some_ women. You – specifically _you_ are one of those women who get all up in arms when someone criticizes a woman. > [@](#): > > Also, is it impossible for you to imagine that a question about what someone does for a living might actually not be primarily motivated by a desire to know that person’s income? Sure. But go among your girlfriends and say “I’m dating a doctor,” and a week later say “I’m dating a garbage collector.” Do I need to spell out the reactions? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/58 "2003-01-21T22:55:50Z")
So - are you trying to blame your lack of success with women on the fact that you have a crappy job, **Pucky**? Just asking. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/59 "2003-01-21T23:04:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > \*\*What **Ferret Herder** said. > > Besides, even if the OP did have a generalization in it, that doesn’t excuse you making huge sweeping ones with the biggest-ass brush you can find\*\* Speaking of dishonesty, you’re doing great. I made no generalizations. You are simply attempting to cut off debate by making such an accusation. > [@](#): > > But you carry right on. You’re making a really good impression. No, really. You seem to have an inflated estimation of the worth of your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825/60 "2003-01-21T23:06:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > \*\*So - are you trying to blame your lack of success with women on the fact that you have a crappy job, **Pucky**? > > Just asking. \*\* Doing fine in both areas, A lice. But I knew you’d get around to that slam. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-guys/149825.md?page=4)