# What is wrong with "thinking your country is the best"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 9, 2003, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212 "2003-11-09T09:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/21 "2003-11-09T13:33:57Z")
That’s weird, I was about to post that the only two nationalities I’ve heard do this are the Americans and the Chinese. Best dumb quote: a friend of mine was admiring the Canadian Rockies. He said “they must be the most beautiful mountains in the world”. The Chinese girl he was with said “They are very beautiful, but not the best in the world. They can’t be - they’re not in China!” ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/22 "2003-11-09T13:42:10Z")
… well then she can’t be the most beautiful girl either since she is not in China… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/23 "2003-11-09T13:42:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > **That’s weird, I was about to post that the only two nationalities I’ve heard do this are the Americans and the Chinese.** I don’t think so, I’ve heard plenty of Japanese people express similar thoughts. I think any country which is isolated geographically, culturally and/or by language is prone to this. To add to what I said earlier - someone saying “this country is best” is like a parent or teacher naming one of their children as the best and favorite. If you really know the children/countries well, you shouldn’t be able to make that choice. ---
**Author:** ![commie\_sho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@commie\_sho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commie_sho)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/24 "2003-11-09T13:57:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*In all honesty, I’ve only ever heard Americans say this. > > Interesting OP from someone with “commie” in their name though 😉 \*\* Hahaha, I’m not a communist. I am a capitalist acetist. This means I want to live in the projects and drive a Ferrari F-40. I’ve heard people from the following countries say theirs is the best: Mexico, Singapore, China, Korea and Japan. (Korea was from a song encouraging a Korean invasion of America…?) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sublight \* > \*\* > Now, when people complain that Americans seem to always be saying that their country is best, which of these three do you think they’re refrring to? \*\* Did you read my OP? I was asking why it’s so bad to _think_ your own country is the best place to live. I am not defending Americans’ rights to brag about how their country is better than yours. If they do that, they’re not so much being Americans as morons. I am specifically talking about what the great crime in THINKING America is the best country to live in. On the other hand, when foreign (European) posters bring this belief up out of the blue during a debate, it’s both in bad taste and an ad hominem attack. Also redundant, because I believe most people beleive their country is the best, and they should have a right to without taking crap for it from the thought police. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/25 "2003-11-09T14:13:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by commie\_sho \* > **On the other hand, when foreign (European) posters bring this belief up out of the blue during a debate, it’s both in bad taste and an ad hominem attack.** Well I guess so, if the poster in question hasn’t made this assertion. But that statement contradicts your next assertion, which seems to imply that you think the hypothetical European poster is actually correct: > [@](#): > > \*\*Also redundant, because I believe most people beleive their country is the best, and they should have a right to without taking crap for it from the thought police. \*\* Anyway, I don’t think this is correct. I would hope that most people are aware of their country’s shortcomings _and_ advantages. Either that or “most” people are narrow-minded. Is that in fact what you’re saying? ---
**Author:** ![commie\_sho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@commie\_sho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commie_sho)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/26 "2003-11-09T14:29:20Z")
If the person has blindly decided their country is “the best” out of extreme nationalism, yes, that would count as narrow minded. If, however, someone weighs their country’s strengths and shortcomings as you say and decides that they think it the best place to live, why is that automatically chalked up to arrogance? Rashak Mani: I hope you’re not saying because I’m an American I automatically have no frame of comparison…people in my family are prolific travelers. What’s more, I don’t need to _go_ to China to know I wouldn’t want to live there, all I need to know is that I can’t criticize their government. In which case, Europeans being more “cultured” and well traveled than their American cousins really doesn’t even come in to play, does it? I think it all boils down to people not understanding each other. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/27 "2003-11-09T14:55:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Peanuthead \* > \*\*Let’s just tell it like it is: > **The United States of America** , despite its faults, _ **is** _ the best. Can you name any other country in the world where they have to guard their borders to prevent people from **entering**? > > Anybody disagree? Okay. Tell me where you would rather live. (and why the hell _don’t_ you?) \*\* tons of western european countries have that problem too. I think australia does too. i dont know where i’d rather live given the choice. i dont like the US’s legal system. aside from that its a pretty good country. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/28 "2003-11-09T14:55:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by commie\_sho \* > \*\*If, however, someone weighs their country’s strengths and shortcomings as you say and decides that they think it the best place to live, why is that automatically chalked up to arrogance? \*\* If you understand that it is a subjective opinion, I have no trouble with it. If you believe it to be an objective truth, then it means you believe your standards and values are absolute. I think that’s an arrogant point of view. I don’t think Japan (my home country by birth and citizenship) is the best. Nor do I think America (the country I’ll be moving to soon) is the best. I know many people who chose to move from the US to Japan, and I know many who have done the opposite, and also people who have moved to or from other countries. I understand why they made those decisions, and I don’t think any of them made a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/29 "2003-11-09T15:32:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by commie\_sho \* > **If the person has blindly decided their country is “the best” out of extreme nationalism, yes, that would count as narrow minded. If, however, someone weighs their country’s strengths and shortcomings as you say and decides that they think it the best place to live, why is that automatically chalked up to arrogance?** Because the thing people are objecting to isn’t “the best place to live”, when it’s said. What is said is “We’re the best.” For example (I’ve mentioned this on the boards once before), a friend of mine from Boston was with me in a pub in Cork, Ireland. The Irish national anthem was played at the end of the night. Immediately after it finished, my friend jumped up on a table and sang the Star Spangled Banner (with which the bemused locals gamely joined in), then shouted “America! The greatest country in the world!” Now I don’t know what you think, but to me that comes over as pretty arrogant. BTW, I really do appreciate that this sort of behaviour is a minority, but I’ve personally only seen that strength of national fervour from Americans. Personally, having lived in both Hong Kong and the US, I’d choose Hong Kong - which, of course, is a part of China now. ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/30 "2003-11-09T15:49:33Z")
Yeah… but would you rather be a typical American citizen or a typical Hong Kong citizen? Hong Kong to westerners means making many times would locals make and not living in a cell-like apartment with one’s whole family. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/31 "2003-11-09T15:55:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Space Vampire \* > \*\*Yeah… but would you rather be a typical American citizen or a typical Hong Kong citizen? Hong Kong to westerners means making many times would locals make and not living in a cell-like apartment with one’s whole family. \*\* Nah, I was on a “local” salary when I was there (started on HK$7,000 per month, left on HK$13,500 3 years later). Loved the place anyway. I guess restricted travel would suck, though - has the PRC cracked down on that? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/32 "2003-11-09T16:00:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Space Vampire \* > \*\*Yeah… but would you rather be a typical American citizen or a typical Hong Kong citizen? Hong Kong to westerners means making many times would locals make and not living in a cell-like apartment with one’s whole family. \*\* How does a “typical American citizen” live? ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/33 "2003-11-09T16:06:06Z")
That’s unusual… was that pre-Handover? These days you just wouldn’t get a work visa for any post paying that. Travel in or around China or what? I think HK citizens can do whatever they want, though I assume they’re subject to some travel regulation in the mainland?.. And post-SARS government restrictions on travel to HK were loosened up to boost the tourist industry, and while it’s worked, it also appears to have lead to an increase in illegal labor, picked pockets, and prostitutes to be rounded up, not to mention anti-mainlander sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/34 "2003-11-09T16:08:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*How does a “typical American citizen” live? \*\* I don’t know about the average, but I would say not working 10-12 hours a day for a lousy paycheck which must be shared with your family of 6 with whom you share a 600 sq. ft. apartment. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/35 "2003-11-09T16:32:35Z")
Hmmm, I’ve known plenty of Americans from poorer areas who did precisely that. The whole country ain’t Leave It To Beaver, you know 😉 The correct answer to the question BTW is “there is no ‘typical American citizen’”. ---
**Author:** ![commie\_sho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@commie\_sho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commie_sho)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/36 "2003-11-09T16:57:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*Immediately after it finished, my friend jumped up on a table and sang the Star Spangled Banner (with which the bemused locals gamely joined in), then shouted “America! The greatest country in the world!” Now I don’t know what you think, but to me that comes over as pretty arrogant. \*\* To me that comes off as _really damn funny!_ Are you sure he wasn’t joking and or attempting to piss everyone off, and or, very drunk? BTW, us Americans are also aware of our boastful stereotypes, maybe he was playing it up for comedic value, I know I’ve done that before. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scr4 \* > \*\*If you understand that it is a subjective opinion, I have no trouble with it. \*\* Excellent, then we agree! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/37 "2003-11-09T17:05:47Z")
Nah, he was serious. Though drunk. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/38 "2003-11-09T17:11:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by commie\_sho \* > **To me that comes off as _really damn funny!_** Sorry, I’m with jjimm. I’d be horrified if anyone I was with pulled a stunt like that. ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/39 "2003-11-09T17:30:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*Hmmm, I’ve known plenty of Americans from poorer areas who did precisely that. The whole country ain’t Leave It To Beaver, you know 😉 > > The correct answer to the question BTW is “there is no ‘typical American citizen’”. \*\* …Sorry, did you get the impression I’m not American? ‘Cause I am. I was just pointing out as an aside to jjimm that where you might enjoy living abroad isn’t always as good for the people there as it is for you. The best time of my life was spent in Beijing, but there are many aspects of the average citizens’ life there that are not exactly enviable. Really all just a tangent. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212/40 "2003-11-09T17:53:12Z")
Yeah, I know you’re American and I know the point you were trying to make … I was just trying to make the point that there are also plenty of Americans living in really crappy circumstances. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-thinking-your-country-is-the-best/212212.md?page=3)