# What is wrong with this statement about the formation of America? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 24, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341 "2018-01-24T04:06:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BloodStalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@BloodStalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BloodStalk)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/1 "2018-01-24T04:06:47Z")
So, I came across this statement on twitter: “The original America was made of Europeans who wanted Freedom from their governments. Why are Democrats trying to drag us back there. That’s not Progressive, that’s Regressive. Just a thought.” So with this statement, I can’t help but feel it’s problematic as I think it undermines the presence of Native Americans at the time but maybe there are other things wrong with it that I can’t see. Are there? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/2 "2018-01-24T04:23:36Z")
What are Democrats trying to drag us back to? Europe? The statement makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![BloodStalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@BloodStalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BloodStalk)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/3 "2018-01-24T04:26:36Z")
I think back to governments having control. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/4 "2018-01-24T04:40:18Z")
The governments of 18th century Europe were very different than the government modern Democrats want. ---
**Author:** ![Grumbacher\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Grumbacher\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumbacher_Red)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/5 "2018-01-24T04:52:40Z")
It seems to be some inference to Democrats wanting bigger government and more control over everyday things, but overall it is a pretty narrow and ill-informed statement. It’s not so much that it “undermines the presence of Native Americans” as you say, but it also could stand to be more specific about who those Europeans were. Those Puritans and Pilgrims came to the New World for religious freedom, because they wanted to practice their idea of pure Protestantism, without any elements of Catholic, which were so repulsive to them in England. And they may have felt persecuted where they came from, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t getting in some licks themselves. They weren’t always exactly innocent victims. And it was, these early groups of colonists who had the idea about what “America” could be. The Natives, who weren’t always so sweet and innocent either, just wanted it to keep being what it already was to them. And therein lies the conflict. But none of this has anything to do with with the supposed point this person is trying to make. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/6 "2018-01-24T05:19:14Z")
The original settlers were trying to get away from autocratic regimes in which the laws were slanted against the little guy, there was a huge gap between rich and poor, and powerful vested interests were so entrenched as to be basically untouchable. WHO exactly is that’s trying to drag America back to that situation…? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/7 "2018-01-24T07:43:54Z")
> [@Grumbacher\_Red](#): > > Those Puritans and Pilgrims came to the New World for religious freedom, because they wanted to practice their idea of pure Protestantism, without any elements of Catholic, which were so repulsive to them in England. And they may have felt persecuted where they came from, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t getting in some licks themselves. They weren’t always exactly innocent victims. And it was, these early groups of colonists who had the idea about what “America” could be. The Natives, who weren’t always so sweet and innocent either, just wanted it to keep being what it already was to them. In fact, a lot of Catholics from England and other countries were escaping religious persecution from Protestants. Are the Democrats trying to implement the “as the Prince, so the People” religious-establishment rule in the US? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/8 "2018-01-24T08:16:14Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > The original settlers were trying to get away from autocratic regimes in which the laws were slanted against the little guy, there was a huge gap between rich and poor, and powerful vested interests were so entrenched as to be basically untouchable. > > WHO exactly is that’s trying to drag America back to that situation…? Yes. And which party is it, again, which seeks to - deny women the freedom of their own bodies? - deport law-abiding residents who’ve been in the country for decades? - disallow transsexuals from using public bathrooms? - deny government jobs to those who voted for the autocrat’s opponent? - impede the voting rights of those unlikely to vote for the autocrat’s party? - impede workers’ ability to form trade unions? - arrest users of a recreational drug whose use is allowed by the people and state government? - disallow the use or espousal of science by government scientists? - impede poor people’s opportunities for healthcare and education? - use the autocrat’s bully pulpit to inhibit a free press? - Et cetera. Meanwhile, what is it the progressives have done that is so bad? Ask a cake maker to make a cake?? OP: Ask the Twitterer if he pulled his definition of “Freedom” from Orwell’s _1984_. If not, suggest that the word “Democrat” be replaced with the name of the American party that actually does favor oppression. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/9 "2018-01-24T12:44:02Z")
ACLU. Do the progressives support of oppose the ACLU? Does the ACLU foster freedom from government, or government control? ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/10 "2018-01-24T13:17:55Z")
I would say that the first half of the tweet is inaccurate, the colonies were originally an economic venture, the colonists had a variety of reasons for coming here, religion and politics being among them and the ones that get talked about most as part of teaching the history of the US (when I was a kid in school learning this stuff anyway). However, not all of the colonists wanted to secede from the crown. There were plenty of loyalists. Overall, it’s an emotional appeal to some group. The type of political statement I’ve come to despise over the years as they are usually distracting from the truly important issues, sometimes used that way on purpose. They detract from getting useful and important stuff done. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/11 "2018-01-24T13:24:36Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > ACLU. > > Do the progressives support of oppose the ACLU? > > Does the ACLU foster freedom from government, or government control? This appears to be a complete non-sequitur, unrelated to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/12 "2018-01-24T13:26:34Z")
Also, which “original America”? Virginia and the Carolinas were founded by people well aligned with the British crown, just out to make a buck from commodities. As mentioned earlier, New England Puritans were here so THEY would not have to tolerate OTHER churches. (For most of the colonial era the rest of the continent was half and half Spanish and French outposts out to get strategic advantage. ) The USA specifically was founded by people mostly already settled in, who wanted a representative rather than absentee exercise of sovereignty. Meanwhile most of the later immigrants were \*economic \*immigrants, or people fleeing outright \*persecution \* or strife. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/13 "2018-01-24T16:54:52Z")
Wait a second, wait a second. It’s the _Democrats_ that are trying to throw more government on us??? Like forcing women to get transvaginal scans before getting an abortion? Like limiting what two consenting adults can do in the privacy of their home? And on and on. The Democrats??? Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/14 "2018-01-24T17:06:23Z")
The Twitterite quoted in the OP apparently is nostalgic for the era when people with the clothes on their backs and a few simple tools found land for the taking (if you didn’t count instances where someone was using it already), battled starvation and disease, and forged new lives (if they survived). It sounds like (s)he would be happier boarding the first shuttle to a new Earth-like planet. This one doesn’t offer the right conditions any more. ---
**Author:** ![Euphrosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d9b06d/32.png) [@Euphrosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphrosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/15 "2018-01-24T22:34:53Z")
[quote=“septimus, post:8, topic:807341”] What is it the progressives have done that is so bad? Ask a cake maker to make a cake?? “Ask a cake maker”? “Ask”? To do so at the point of the sword which the state wields, is not “asking;” it is compelling. No Christian baker has refused to sell LGBT people donuts, cupcakes, strudels, cookies, or sheet cakes. The dispute has nothing to do with a cake. The problem is the State compelling baker-artists to provide SPEECH that goes against their conscience. In a nation in which the people are truly free, the State would be restrained from forbidding, interfering with, or compelling speech. Many Americans are troubled and disappointed to learn that the U.S. government is no longer so restrained. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/16 "2018-01-24T23:19:16Z")
So dude, is your whole thing going to be posting things that anonymous other people have supposedly said on various social media, and asking us to comment on the mental state of these anonymous third parties? Because that’s going to get old fast. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/17 "2018-01-25T00:13:38Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > This appears to be a complete non-sequitur, unrelated to the OP. In other words, the title of the thread and the first two paragraphs of the OP are “unrelated to the OP”. And the third paragraph that says “maybe there are other things”. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/18 "2018-01-25T00:14:00Z")
> [@BloodStalk](#): > > So, I came across this statement on twitter: > > “The original America was made of Europeans who wanted Freedom from their governments. Why are Democrats trying to drag us back there. That’s not Progressive, that’s Regressive. Just a thought.” > > So with this statement, I can’t help but feel it’s problematic as I think it undermines the presence of Native Americans at the time but maybe there are other things wrong with it that I can’t see. Are there? There are many things wrong with the statement, chief among them is its profound ignorance. There’s not a lot of evidence that America was formed by Europeans who wanted freedom from their governments, but there is plenty of evidence it was founded by Europeans who wanted to oppress people with their narrow religious view and built by enslaved Africans. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/19 "2018-01-25T00:25:13Z")
The statement is also somewhat akin to saying “Hitler had facial hair. Millennials are trying to bring back facial hair. Why are millennials trying to enslave Jews?” Even if we generously play along and assume that the colonials were entirely motivated by the desire to flee government oppression, the idea that “being subjugated to rule by 1770’s England” is in any way comparable to “adopting the good parts of liberal policies from across 2010’s Europe” is so incredibly stupid that it’s difficult to believe a breathing human wrote it. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/20 "2018-01-25T03:12:06Z")
> [@](#): > > **What is wrong with this statement about the formation of America?** In a word, Ignorance. _Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it._ - George Santayana [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341.md?page=2)