# What is wrong with this statement about the formation of America? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 24, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341 "2018-01-24T04:06:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/21 "2018-01-25T03:16:59Z")
Technically, the original Americans were rejects who were kicked out of most of the respectable countries. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/22 "2018-01-25T03:30:43Z")
As I recall, it was the 1620 Pilgrims who came in flight from religious oppression. Everyone since then came either motivated by greed, or to fill the vacuum of religious oppression. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/23 "2018-01-25T03:45:06Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > As I recall, it was the 1620 Pilgrims who came in flight from religious oppression. Everyone since then came either motivated by greed, or to fill the vacuum of religious oppression. Virginians were here first, for money. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/24 "2018-01-25T04:05:55Z")
Look. Here are the Seven Deadly Sins: Gluttony Greed Sloth Lust Wrath Envy and Pride The people who formed America came here motivated at least one, probably several, and maybe all if the first six. The seventh one is the edifice they built to celebrate and worship their success. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/25 "2018-01-25T04:22:39Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > As I recall, it was the 1620 Pilgrims who came in flight from religious oppression. Everyone since then came either motivated by greed, or to fill the vacuum of religious oppression. No, that’s not true. They came to impose their own religion when the European countries they left wouldn’t let them control the religions there. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/26 "2018-01-25T06:12:55Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > No, that’s not true. They came to impose their own religion when the European countries they left wouldn’t let them control the religions there. This is nonsense. The state religions wouldn’t allow them to practice their version of Christianity in peace. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/27 "2018-01-25T06:21:59Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > This is nonsense. The state religions wouldn’t allow them to practice their version of Christianity in peace. Funny. I thought the Puritans won the English Civil War and imposed their own religious beliefs on the country. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/28 "2018-01-25T06:41:07Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Funny. I thought the Puritans won the English Civil War and imposed their own religious beliefs on the country. Yes, but not until 1649. Jtur88 is talking about the situation in 1620, a generation earlier. > [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > No, that’s not true. They came to impose their own religion when the European countries they left wouldn’t let them control the religions there. > [@madsircool](#): > > This is nonsense. The state religions wouldn’t allow them to practice their version of Christianity in peace. It was both. They wanted _both_ to practice Christianity as they thought proper _and_ to be able to compel everyone in the community to practice Christianity as they thought proper. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/29 "2018-01-25T06:49:44Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Funny. I thought the Puritans won the English Civil War and imposed their own religious beliefs on the country. > [@UDS](#): > > Yes, but not until 1649. Jtur88 is talking about the situation in 1620, a generation earlier. . . Specifically, Plymouth Colony ran from 1620 to 1691. Charles I ruled to 1649. So he was their monarch and issued their charter. The monarchy was restored in 1660 after a passing Puritan bit from 1649 to 1660. I wonder how that effected immigration to the colony. I don’t imagine that immigration stopped during the rule of the Parliamentarians. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/30 "2018-01-25T07:24:24Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Specifically, Plymouth Colony ran from 1620 to 1691. Charles I ruled to 1649. So he was their monarch and issued their charter. > > The monarchy was restored in 1660 after a passing Puritan bit from 1649 to 1660. I wonder how that effected immigration to the colony. I don’t imagine that immigration stopped during the rule of the Parliamentarians. Actually, it did, more or less. The population of the colony rose steadily from 1620 until the mid 1640s, after which it stabilised and thereafter grew largely by natural increase, rather than through continued immigration. The peak years of migration were 1629-1640, and it’s generally thought that parliament being reconvened in 1640 and beginning to assert itself against the crown, leading to the outbreak of the Civil War in 1642, is one of the things that led to a significant decline in the desire to migrate to Plymouth. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/31 "2018-01-25T07:55:46Z")
> [@BloodStalk](#): > > So, I came across this statement on twitter: > > “The original America was made of Europeans who wanted Freedom from their governments. Why are Democrats trying to drag us back there. That’s not Progressive, that’s Regressive. Just a thought.” > > So with this statement, I can’t help but feel it’s problematic as I think it undermines the presence of Native Americans at the time but maybe there are other things wrong with it that I can’t see. Are there? I think this person on Twitter believes that the first colonies were libertarian paradises. Which shows the depth of knowledge behind most tweets. Tweet back - “No, Ayn Rand did not come over on the Mayflower.” ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/32 "2018-01-25T08:20:52Z")
> [@Euphrosyne](#): > > QUOTE=septimus;20743827 What is it the progressives have done that is so bad? Ask a cake maker to make a cake?? > > “Ask a cake maker”? “Ask”? To do so at the point of the sword which the state wields, is not “asking;” it is compelling. > > No Christian baker has refused to sell LGBT people donuts, cupcakes, strudels, cookies, or sheet cakes. The dispute has nothing to do with a cake. > > The problem is the State compelling baker-artists to provide SPEECH that goes against their conscience. > > In a nation in which the people are truly free, the State would be restrained from forbidding, interfering with, or compelling speech. Many Americans are troubled and disappointed to learn that the U.S. government is no longer so restrained. FWIW, I also oppose the government forcing cake makers to make cakes! I wouldn’t include it in my Top Ten list of complaints, however. If you read my post again, you will see that the cake-maker crisis, however horrible and grievous a violation it may seem to you (“at the point of the sword” no less :smack: ) was in sarcastic _ **contrast to a list of freedoms the GOP wants to deny.** _ Kindly review the post you responded to and see if any of the other denied freedoms measure as large, in your opinion, as the horrible injustices inflicted on cake-makers. ---
**Author:** ![Euphrosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d9b06d/32.png) [@Euphrosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphrosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/33 "2018-01-25T12:38:14Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > FWIW, I also oppose the government forcing cake makers to make cakes! I wouldn’t include it in my Top Ten list of complaints, however. > > Kindly review the post you responded to and see if any of the other denied freedoms measure as large, in your opinion, as the horrible injustices inflicted on cake-makers. Thank you, Septimus, for your kind invitation to reply to the additional items in the list you created of our government’s “denial of freedoms.” Your characterization of government encroachments on your fellow Americans’ free speech rights as “horrible injustices inflicted on cake-makers,” a droll comment, would appear to indicate a view of those rights of the American people that have been set forth in our Constitution _verbatim et litteratim_, as not preeminent. I have no idea how to even begin to reply. I wish you a very pleasant day. And God bless us, every one. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/34 "2018-01-25T13:45:06Z")
> [@Euphrosyne](#): > > Thank you, Septimus, for your kind invitation to reply to the additional items in the list you created of our government’s “denial of freedoms.” > > Your characterization of government encroachments on your fellow Americans’ free speech rights as “horrible injustices inflicted on cake-makers,” a droll comment … I bet myself that you would _ **ignore the list of much more significant denials of freedom** _, and just repeat yourself about my playful but only-slight caricature of the dreadful campaign against “cake-makers.” I win the bet! ---
**Author:** ![Euphrosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d9b06d/32.png) [@Euphrosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphrosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/35 "2018-01-25T13:59:21Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I win the bet! Congratulations, Septimus. Note to other readers / commenters: As for me, I would feel as happy as Septimus does about winning his bet with himself, if another commenter who pays thoughtful attention to the substance of the comments, were to enter the conversation, and reply accordingly. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/36 "2018-01-25T14:10:51Z")
> [@BloodStalk](#): > > So, I came across this statement on twitter: > > “The original America was made of Europeans who wanted Freedom from their governments. Why are Democrats trying to drag us back there. That’s not Progressive, that’s Regressive. Just a thought.” This reads like it was written by someone who stopped learning about US history at around the elementary school level. ---
**Author:** ![Euphrosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d9b06d/32.png) [@Euphrosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphrosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/37 "2018-01-25T14:34:50Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > This reads like it was written by someone who stopped learning about US history at around the elementary school level. Ad hom. What about the _substance_? Do progressives not get _substance_? ---
**Author:** ![Euphrosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d9b06d/32.png) [@Euphrosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphrosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/38 "2018-01-25T14:50:50Z")
> [@Euphrosyne](#): > > Ad hom. > > What about the _substance_? Do progressives not get _substance_? I take that back. That was as bad as the earlier ad hom. My goal here is to see: _Can productive discourse exist outside one’s own echo chamber?_ My last comment is not a good example. I hate that it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/39 "2018-01-25T14:54:59Z")
> [@Euphrosyne](#): > > Ad hom. Not really. There is no “substance”. It’s a random Tweet from God knows who which simplifies the foundation of the country to a single bit of elementary school level American Mythology. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341/40 "2018-01-25T15:42:30Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > This is nonsense. The state religions wouldn’t allow them to practice their version of Christianity in peace. Indeed, the Church of England wasn’t going to let them execute [non-Puritan heretics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Hutchinson), so they founded a colony in which they’d be boss. This is the standard right-wing ignorance on religious freedom, in that they define “religious freedom” as “the right to practice religion as I do, and in no other way.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-wrong-with-this-statement-about-the-formation-of-america/807341.md?page=3)