Well, since you don’t even have to believe in god to belong to the UU church, I have a difficult time even counting this as a christian religion. Many christians attend, but the umbrella organization is more of a club than a church.
Exactamundo. It is understandable that for a homosexual, a church’s attitude toward homosexuality is very high on the list of things that would define it for them. But is nowhere nearly so important for the churches themselves.
I was raised Southern Baptist, and my father and brother are SB ministers. I’ve probably heard three thousand Southern Baptist sermons in my life. I don’t recall ever once hearing homosexality ever even being mentioned. I am currently a member of one of the conservative Episcopal Dioceses that Polycarp is opposed to, and, outside of the ordination controversy, I don’t recall homosexuality ever getting more than a passing mention. The truth is that for that for Christians, even Southern Baptists, even for the large majority of conservative Southern Baptists, this not major issue. The popular stereotype of tens of thousands of sweaty Reverends angrily condemning the sodomites to hell from the pulpit is pure fiction.
If you want to know what the “core beliefs” of any church or Christian organization is, read their Statement of Faith or Doctrinal Statement or whatever they call it; nearly all of them have one.
Not if you substitute “hundreds” for “tens of thousands,” it isn’t.
The doctrine of loving one another exists as the second great commandment in Christian teachings. Not only am I to love the homosexual, which is not a problem for me, but I am also to love the bigot – which is more difficult. Although I may try to convince people that it is not our place to judge others, I must also practice that myself.
In becoming a human being, I am the Nazi; I am the Jew; I am the Palestinian; I am the oppressor; I am the oppressed.
In becoming a Christian, as is true in many other faiths, I become part of the will to heal and unify.
Yet I am imperfect.
I’ll grant that. And when you realize that there are something like 200, 000 churches, you get some perspective.
And from the point of view of those types – the Bob Jones of the world – the SBC is liberal.
Check this out. Nearly every Southern Baptist church I googled links directly to this: http://www.fsbcdc.org/
I don’t know how else to read it. It comes up under the “What We Believe” tab. Pretty cut and dried.
My view is that we are all sinners, that’s one reason people go to church. This also goes for homosexuals. The core message of Christ is we can be cleansed of our sins if we chose.
I can fully understand and agree with the point that churches of Christ (following conventional interpertations) should not perform same sex ‘marriages’, but should not close it’s doors either to such a couple. It should welcome them as fellow sinners who wish to have their sins cleansed by the blood of Christ.
Just a little less equal…slightly less loveable, right? You can hang out with us, but you’re still gonna burn in hell for making “bad” choices. My eyes are rolling like a mutherfuck.
They all link to First Baptist of Del City, Oklahoma???
None of these mention it:
First Babtist OK City
FB AtlantaFB Nashville
FB Mobile
FB Richmond
FB San Antonio
FB Dallas and Houston link to the The Baptist Faith and Message, which is non-binding, but does represent the general consensus of Southern Baptists; homosexuality is mentioned in one sentence in the current version, and not mentioned at all in the pre-2000 versions. That mention may upset you, but I think its rather a stretch to say that rejection of homosexuality is a “core belief.”
Why are you so eager to be offended? She said nothing of the sort.
Um, kanicbird said nothing of the sort. He didn’t say they’d burn in hell; he said they’d be welcome as fellow sinners. In other words, as equal, sinning human beings. That we all sin by nature is one of the more basic and universal Christian beliefs.
My own (Episcopal) Church is as gay-affirming and welcoming as they come, and yet we don’t have gay weddings. Believe it or not, there can be a great deal of subtlety and a wide variety of opinions on the topic and they can all exist in a loving and supportive atmosphere.
The sites you link to are Baptist; not Southern Baptist. Huge difference, as has been pointed out to me and acknowledged. I should clarify that the link I posted is originally from the SBC site. That’s where most of them link to.
As far as core beliefs go, they say it’s what they believe. Not what some members believe. What the ORGANIZATION believes. They want you to know that the guys in charge think that way. “We Believe” is a very strong statement – not just an underlying tone.
Um, kanicbird said nothing of the sort. He didn’t say they’d burn in hell; he said they’d be welcome as fellow sinners. In other words, as equal, sinning human beings. That we all sin by nature is one of the more basic and universal Christian beliefs.
My own (Episcopal) Church is as gay-affirming and welcoming as they come, and yet we don’t have gay weddings. Believe it or not, there can be a great deal of subtlety and a wide variety of opinions on the topic and they can all exist in a loving and supportive atmosphere.
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I wasn’t directing that to Kanicbird, but to the church mindset that says you are less-than-saveable if you engage in homosexual sex. Homosexual sinners CAN’T cleanse their souls without denying who they are. They CAN’T have loving family lives like everyone else and still be full-fledged members of the church.
A church either treats everyone equally or they don’t. It’s pretty simple to me.
Which churches hold this mindset? I think even churches that are against homosexual behaviour typically believe that those who practice it can receive Christ’s salvation.
Huh? This doesn’t make any sense to me.
Is it your belief that homosexuals can only be treated equally if they’re married?
Unfortunately, religion isn’t a pretty simple topic.
That is what we try to do at my gay church. We marry heterosexual couples, we baptize their babies, we welcome them to church membership, we allow everyone to take communion. I honestly think we try to make everyone feel comfortable.
We’re far from perfect. But, we try.
http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/pssexuality.asp
This is the SBC’s statement on the topic.
and from ReligiousTolerance.org: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_sbc.htm
You’re right. Religion is complicated. Equality is very simple. They either let all their members marry in the eyes of god or they don’t.
Since the various Baptist churches are more complicated than some other denominations, why not pick one that’s fairly easy? The RCC is against homosexual acts and now is going so far as to ban those with homosexual leanings from entering the priesthood.
Ah, but if only the rest of 'em would follow suit.
I agree. I dislike them just as much as the SBC.
You do realize that that statement contradicted what you were saying, right? It specifically said that homosexual sex acts were not unforgiveable.
Perhaps this is where we fundamentally differ. I don’t think equality is simple; I think it’s very complicated and its implications even more so. Can you explain what you mean by “equality” above?