In Norway it’s the sinking of Blücher and delaying the occupation of Oslo, the resistance during German occupation and the participation of Norwegians in exile in the allied forces, but this is taught in context along with Norwegian volunteers fighting with Germans on the eastern front and general WWII knowledge. Single battles are not really emphasized, politics, occupation and liberation is what’s at the forefront.
Broken down by US states, there would be no battle that every schoolboy claims defines his state’s character, but that’s only due to current education practices.
Maine would be Gettysburg, thanks to Ken Burns and Ted Turner. Wisconsinites might recall the Iron Brigade but not any particular Civil War battle, although the New Guinea campaign describes the Wisconsinites I knew: dog-mean. The same goes for Kansas & Missouri: while they might point to Bleeding Kansas, the Battle of the Meuse-Argonne is why one of the best WWI memorials is in Kansas City. California history books would cite the Mexican-American War, but the 1941 “Battle of Los Angeles,” a duel between a single ignorant army who clashes by night (to paraphrase Matthew Arnold), is a conflict more characteristic of the state, save only the Rodney King riots. Texas: well, that one we all can guess.
For two sides with dramatically different equipment in aerial combat that is totally believable. Consider the huge disparity in the Falkland Islands war, attributable largely to the fact that the British had Sidewinders and the Argentines did not.
Okay, that would make sense. If the F-86s had missiles and the MiGs had only guns (don’t bring a gun to a missile fight,) then it would probably be akin to bows+arrows vs. a musket or rifle. Another history book reported it as 29 Taiwanese kills and only 1 Taiwanese loss; the numbers are apparently hazy from source to source but consistently report a lopsided kill ratio no matter what.
For worst American defeat, I nominate the battle of Tassafaronga.
The Japanese had no cruisers, just 8 destroyers totaling about 15,000 tons. The fight occurred at night, and they had no radar. Several of their ships were being used as transports, which reduced their fighting capacity. They fought 10 radar-equipped American cruisers and destroyers, totaling about 60,000 tons.
In less than an hour, the USN lost a cruiser, and 3 others were badly damaged. The Japanese lost 1 DD.
The first battle of Savo Island was arguably just as disastrous.
Pearl Harbor wasn’t a high point either
Which, BTW, would not be the battle that Hawaii sees as its defining moment. That would either be when Kamehameha pushed his enemies off the Pali, or when the 442nd rescued the Texans in the Vosages in France.
Agreed, even more disastrous. But the forces at Savo were more evenly matched, and the IJN had surprise on their side. I picked Tassafaronga over Savo because the USN went into it with all the advantages, and still managed to lose, badly.
Here in South Africa, the equivalent of Vimy Ridge was Delville Wood.
Did any country other than Germany have battleships with the same name sunk in both World Wars (the armored cruiser Blücher was sunk by the British at the Battle of Dogger Bank in 1915)?
*also a bad luck name as far as horses are concerned.
That’s a bit obscure.
For Americans, our “darkest hour” or “noble sacrifice” battles that every school kid knows are:
The Alamo
Pearl Harbor
The entire Vietnam War (Khe Sahn or the Tet Offensive if I have to put a battle to it).
Our “greatest victory” battles would be:
Lexington and Concord
Yorktown
D-Day (A.K.A. Operation: Overlord)
Midway
Iwo Jima
Desert Storm
Gettysburg is kind of considered both.
Agreed. I’m thinking more “most embarrassing defeat”.
The only thing I know about Armentieres is the Mademoiselle who came from there. ![]()
US Civil War–the Battle Of Shiloh Church.
World War One level casualties–and worse.
And that’s just the Federal side.
Add the Rebels and…
For Scotland pre-1707
Big wins: Bannockburn, Stirling Bridge
Big losses: Culloden, Flodden.
For perspective, Shiloh accounted for over 23,000 dead and wounded.
The Battle of the Somme in WWI racked up over a million casualties. including more than 300,000 dead.
As for Tassafaronga, it was a tactical defeat for the U.S. - but a strategic loss for the Japanese. Their mission to resupply forces on Guadalcanal failed.
There’s quite a few that loom large for English/British people - yes yes, we’ve fought just about everybody, and who doesn’t love a victory roll for the likes of Trafalgar, Agincourt, or Waterloo or a collective sob for the Somme - but the ones that really stick in the collective conscience are the ones where we have been nobly trying to save ourselves from certain national obliteration.
So I’d say it was a toss up between the Spanish Armada and the Battle of Britain.
Honourable mention goes to Dunkirk.
Oh? And what did she say? (My grandmother used to sing this song but only knew the words to the first verse.)
Do Germans ever feel pride about the Teutoburg Forest?
I’m half-German and I get a happy twinge when the thought comes up.