# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/181 "2013-06-19T09:10:11Z")
The consequences don’t matter. Do we live in a nation with rule of law, or rule of men? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/182 "2013-06-19T16:39:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The consequences don’t matter. Do we live in a nation with rule of law, or rule of men? You tell me, I guess then you do not approve of the underhanded methods used to refuse implementing the law. Compare this with the IRS tax review incident, even the democrats in congress agreed that even if not law was broken what took place was inappropriate. In this case it seems Republicans like you do not care that the spirit of the health care law is refuted constantly and the attempts to subvert it are to be praised. But regarding this specific item, The Republicans cutting off their noses to spite their faces is amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/183 "2013-06-19T16:43:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The consequences don’t matter. Do we live in a nation with rule of law, or rule of men? Which side is attempting end runs around SCOTUS? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/184 "2013-06-19T17:11:56Z")
The Democrats. They didn’t read the bill they passed, it says stuff they didn’t mean it to say, and now they want SCOTUS to rule on what they would have passed had they read the bill. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/185 "2013-06-19T17:33:35Z")
Ok, now you are beginning to sound like the tax evaders and their gold fringe flags, as I understood, it is not unprecedented to get issues like that and have the courts in the end side with the intention the makers of the law had in mind and was assumed it was. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/186 "2013-06-19T23:56:07Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > They’re happy with the insurance because the alternative is usually _nothing._ > > And when you come from nothing, you might not even realize there are better ones out there. > > For instance: > I just started a new job. Most people here are happy with their insurance. It’s a tech start-up, so lots of younger people who’ve only ever worked here, or maybe one other place before. But truth be told, it’s a shitty plan. It’s high deductible ($3000 for a single person,), medium-low premium ($65 per two-week paycheck,) and not good coverage…lots of “in-network” and “pre-approval” shit. > > But again, lots of them are happy with it, because compared to no insurance, it’s a God-send. But I came from a job with some of the best health insurance I’ve ever seen. It was low-premium ($35 per paycheck,) no deductible, and super-low co-pays ($10 for regular office visit, $15 for specialist, no referral needed, $50 for ER visit, $200 per in-patient day, $300 for surgery, and there was a max out-of-pocket expense for those, too. No “max lifetime benefit” crap, either.) > > So it’s a little mis-leading to say that most people are happy with their insurance when they both > > 1. Don’t know any better > > and 2) Are pretty much stuck with that insurance anyway because it’s tied to employer and you’re lucky if you actually have a choice in plans. > I find it sickening that the US doesn’t have UHC. From both a practical/economic standpoint, it makes sense, and from a moral standpoint it makes sense. One of the changes with Obamacare is that plans like this are going to become less common. Not just because the exchanges have higher OOP expenses, but because the Cadillac tax is going to start hitting plans with good, as opposed to generous, benefits before too long since it’s indexed to regular inflation as opposed to healthcare inflation. Trying to reduce utilization by increasing costs is one thing I don’t like about it, since most people don’t think it’s fun seeing a doctor I don’t think this will have a big effect at reducing healthcare costs. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/187 "2013-06-20T01:04:54Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Ok, now you are beginning to sound like the tax evaders and their gold fringe flags, as I understood, it is not unprecedented to get issues like that and have the courts in the end side with the intention the makers of the law had in mind and was assumed it was. So if the law says one thing, but they meant it to say something else, SCOTUS should amend it for them, thus saving them the need to vote on an actual amendment? Anyway, more fuel for the fire: 42% of small businesses have frozen or reduced hiring as a result of the law according to a poll of small business owners. > **[Will Obamacare Hurt Jobs? It's Already Happening, Poll Finds](https://www.cnbc.com/2013/06/19/will-obamacare-hurt-jobs-its-already-happening-poll-finds.html)** > > Forty-eight percent of small business owners think Obamacare will be bad for their bottom line, with a majority holding off on hiring or even shedding workers as a result, a Gallup poll has found. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/188 "2013-06-20T01:20:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > …42% of small businesses have frozen or reduced hiring as a result of the law according to a poll of small business owners. So most businesses will increase hiring as a result of Obamacare. Yeah, that’s some fire. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/189 "2013-06-20T01:21:37Z")
Actually, only 9% said that Obamacare would have a positive effect on them. 39% said no effect. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/190 "2013-06-20T01:34:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, only 9% said that Obamacare would have a positive effect on them. 39% said no effect. So, can you say that most businesses foresee no negative impact on hiring as a result of Obamacare? Really, I mean it; can your fingers type those words? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/191 "2013-06-20T01:51:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So if the law says one thing, but they meant it to say something else, SCOTUS should amend it for them, thus saving them the need to vote on an actual amendment? > > Anyway, more fuel for the fire: 42% of small businesses have frozen or reduced hiring as a result of the law according to a poll of small business owners. As The Professor of law pointed you are grasping a very tenuous straw. And as **Fear Itself** pointed, you are only doing FUD, and **it is really more fuel to the fire of not trusting anything of what you are claiming**. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/192 "2013-06-20T03:55:47Z")
Wow, really defining success down. Slightly less than half of our small businesses will be negatively affected! Victory! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/193 "2013-06-20T04:13:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Wow, really defining success down. Slightly less than half of our small businesses will be negatively affected! Victory! It is even sadder that the article ends with the point that most of the opinion the small business have is based on the fear mongering coming from the Republicans, likely to be wrong, as you usually are. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/194 "2013-06-20T05:03:48Z")
Why would it be wrong? Does ACA increase costs for small businesses, or doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/195 "2013-06-20T05:46:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Wow, really defining success down. Slightly less than half of our small businesses will be negatively affected! Victory! If a law against flogging employees negatively affected 42% of small businesses, would you support or oppose that law? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/196 "2013-06-20T06:02:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Why would it be wrong? Does ACA increase costs for small businesses, or doesn’t it? It depends if you look at it narrowly, what you show here is indeed what many Republicans claim that they are not doing, in reality they miss the big picture and end up causing more harm than good, and more costs. > **[Redirect Notice](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=whole%20%22costs%20of%20not%20insuring%20people%22%20small%20business&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mecep.org%2Fav.asp%3Fna%3D187&ei=OZjCUei0C4LQygHIhYGoAw&usg=AFQjCNGLcE0cVWVHPrVJx-9wObBKFg-o1w&cad=rja)** (PDF) > [@](#): > > Within Reach > Health Coverage for Working Families > > Maine Center for Economic Policy > > The Cost of Uninsurance > > For Maine, the costs of not insuring parents outweigh, by far, the costs of providing them with Medicaid. Expensive emergency care for preventable illnesses are shifted to hospitals and insurers and contribute to the rising cost of insurance. Social welfare costs are incurred by social service agencies and schools when parents cannot fully care for and support their children because they have illnesses, many of which might have been prevented with proper care. > > Parents on Medicaid are prevented from earning a living because they fear that if they increase their earnings they will lose their Medicaid coverage. > > **Employers lose productivity when employees cannot obtain treatment to heal injuries or control chronic diseases.** > > Of course, the human costs of not insuring people are incalculable. Symptoms of cancer are ignored and left untreated; uncontrolled chronic illnesses cost many hours of lost work; complications from uncontrolled diabetes hospitalize people; and untreated high blood pressure can kill. These individuals’ stories are dramatic and compelling. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/197 "2013-06-20T06:38:57Z")
Ah, so the government knows better than those ignorant businessmen. Gee, never heard that one before. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/198 "2013-06-20T06:49:18Z")
Anyone want to take any bets on whether the federal exchanges will be up and running on schedule? > **[Health-Insurance Exchanges Are Falling Behind Schedule](https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324520904578553871314315986)** > > Government officials have missed several deadlines in setting up new health-insurance exchanges for small businesses and consumers—a key part of the federal health overhaul—and there is a risk they won't be ready to open on time in October,... ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/199 "2013-06-20T07:01:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Ah, so the government knows better than those ignorant businessmen. Gee, never heard that one before. Nope, the point stands, most are being misled by the propaganda of an industry that does want to keep the gravy train going. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/200 "2013-06-20T07:08:50Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/obamacare-lawmakers-health-insurance-92691.html#ixzz2W63muxJO](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/obamacare-lawmakers-health-insurance-92691.html#ixzz2W63muxJO) > > You really can’t make this shit up. Any bum who voted for this monstrosity should have to suffer just the same as everyone else. That includes them and their aides. So you understand their problem, which is that they’re not being treated the same as everyone else? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=11)