# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 101
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2002 "2014-04-07T15:17:28Z")
It’s not uninformed. Tom Harkin was quite candid: [http://thegazette.com/2014/04/06/final-word-about-medicare-advantage-cuts-coming-monday/](http://thegazette.com/2014/04/06/final-word-about-medicare-advantage-cuts-coming-monday/) \*\*Medicare Advantage right now is sometimes two to four times more expensive than regular Medicare — but you get the same coverage,” he said. “They’re putting profits into a little extra benefit. That’s OK for a few people, but it may not be that meaningful for everyone. Read more: [http://thegazette.com/2014/04/06/final-word-about-medicare-advantage-cuts-coming-monday/#ixzz2yDKR2uIl](http://thegazette.com/2014/04/06/final-word-about-medicare-advantage-cuts-coming-monday/#ixzz2yDKR2uIl) \*\* And he’s right. It’s not really a huge deal that many seniors will lose their free gym memberships. But tell ya what, my aunt has gone to the gym every day since she enrolled in Medicare Advantage. She should have been warned that was on the chopping block. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2003 "2014-04-07T16:01:48Z")
Why did you leave out the rest of that Harkin quote? Hmmm… > [@](#): > > “They’re putting profits into a little extra benefit. That’s OK for a few people, but it may not be that meaningful for everyone. > > “It takes a lot of money out of the Medicare system. So there have been some abuses, and Medicare Advantage has been a boon to a lot of providers who don’t do any more than what they do under Medicare.” IOW, yes, the cuts are to bloat and bonuses, \*\*\*not \*\*\*to benefits. Gym memberships aren’t even mentioned in your cite, so perhaps you ought to tell us where you get that, hmm? :dubious: Instead of believing Grassley, which I hope you’re not foolish enough to do. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2004 "2014-04-07T16:09:15Z")
Harkin said that the profits go to supply a little extra in benefits. Cut the profits, cut the little extra in benefits. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2005 "2014-04-07T16:14:16Z")
Only in some cases, perhaps, but not necessarily anything at all, and certainly much less than the excess cost. Now, again: Why did you leave out the rest of that Harkin quote? Where did you get the gym membership “information”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2006 "2014-04-07T16:17:16Z")
Here’s an honest look at the issue from Senior Journal, and it does mention the gym memberships. > **[Welcome seniorjournal.com - BlueHost.com](http://www.seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Medicare/2014/20140407_Decoding_the_High-Stakes_Debate_Over_Medicare_Advantage_Cuts.htm)** > > Bluehost - Top rated web hosting provider - Free 1 click installs For blogs, shopping carts, and more. Get a free domain name, real NON-outsourced 24/7 support, and superior speed. web hosting provider php hosting cheap web hosting, Web hosting,... I mentioned gym memberships becuase they are one of the extra benefits that comes with many Medicare Advantage plans. Here’s what Senior Journal says about the extra benefits: Why do insurers say more Medicare Advantage cuts would hurt seniors? The extra 6 percent that Medicare Advantage costs taxpayers compared with traditional Medicare pays for things that benefit members such as gym memberships, care coordination and better health outcomes, insurance executives say. Lower government payments would induce them to offer fewer Medicare Advantage plans and raise costs for members, they say. Last year, similar pressure on payments caused “reductions in benefits, increases in out-of-pocket costs and changes in provider networks,” said Ignagni. “A number of seniors are living in areas where they’ve had a reduction in choice” of plans. Others see little change. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2007 "2014-04-07T16:32:53Z")
Looks like it’s time for Republicans to be good little boys and girls and [get in line for your medicine.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/07/new-yorker-cover-obamacare-medicine-republicans_n_5104008.html) I know it doesn’t add to the debate here, but you gotta admit this cover is a hoot. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2008 "2014-04-07T16:38:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Here’s an honest look at the issue As in it not being “skewed”? That kind of honest? > [@](#): > > The extra 6 percent that Medicare Advantage costs taxpayers compared with traditional Medicare pays for things that benefit members such as gym memberships, care coordination and better health outcomes, insurance executives say. _That’s_ who says so, huh? 😃 C’mon, dude. > [@](#): > > Lower government payments would induce them to offer fewer Medicare Advantage plans and raise costs for members, they say. But not to improve efficiency, please note. Those bonuses are sacrosanct. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2009 "2014-04-07T18:34:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > McConnell spends a lot of taxpayer money buying votes in the state. You know, the kind of campaign spending campaign finance reformers think is okay. Minus the bacon, McConnell couldn’t win 25% of the vote. I don’t think this is true. McConnell is not nearly as conspicuous about bringing the bacon home as, say, Congressman Hal Rogers. He survived his first two decades or so by being mostly bland and inoffensive, and since then he has had the clout and war chest to keep serious challengers from stepping up. (The political incompetence of the Kentucky Democratic Party also can’ t be overstated.) > [@](#): > > Back to the subject of health care, why would it be hard for Democrats to take credit for Kentucky’s implementation of ACA? Because embracing it means embracing Obama. McConnell will make sure of it. > [@](#): > > I would think that Kentucky’s success would vault Breashear into the Presidential mix. ACA will almost certainly still be having implementation problems as of 2016. Why not promote a guy who has proven he can manage it? Beshear has been a decent governor and deserves credit for the relative success of our ACA implementation, but he’s screwed up as many things as he’s gotten right. He doesn’t pack anything like the gear to go national. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2010 "2014-04-08T10:51:25Z")
And the MOnday announcement on Medicare Advantage was… They lawyered it so that we can’t really tell what they hell they are doing: > **[Medicare Advantage plans dodge U.S. cuts](https://www.startribune.com/medicare-advantage-plans-dodge-u-s-cuts/254290791/)** > > The health insurance industry spent heavily to fight cuts in the private alternative to Medicare. They made “adjustments” of some sort instead of cuts that are somehow still cuts but not. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2011 "2014-04-08T10:57:02Z")
Other sources though, just report that Medicare Advantage cuts were delayed, and in fact payment rates were increased by 1%: > **[Government pulls back on forecasted Medicare Advantage cuts](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/government-pulls-back-on-forecasted-medicare-advantage-cuts)** > > The government has raised its payment estimate for Medicare Advantage plans months ahead of a busy election season during which cuts to the program promise to be a key focus for politicians and voters. [http://www.vnews.com/news/nation/world/11489684-95/medicare-reverses-proposed-cuts-after-big-lobbying-push](http://www.vnews.com/news/nation/world/11489684-95/medicare-reverses-proposed-cuts-after-big-lobbying-push) It should be noted that cutting MEdicare Advantage was where a big portion of the savings that made the plan budget neutral came from. The law is going to add to the deficit now. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2012 "2014-04-08T21:01:03Z")
Now that the media has had a day to chew on the story, yes, they delayed the cuts: [http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/07/us-usa-healthcare-medicare-idUSBREA361R520140407](http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/07/us-usa-healthcare-medicare-idUSBREA361R520140407) Nice try, guys, trying to confuse us, but you did chicken out in the end like you always do. And Chuck Schumer, neither a Blue Dog, nor threatened, says: **“In many parts of the country, including New York, Medicare Advantage works very well. They’ve shouldered their share already and this proposed cut would have been disproportionate, hurting seniors who would lose doctors or pay more. We’re glad the administration heeded our call and reversed the policy,” Democratic Senator Charles Schumer said in a statement. New York has the most Medicare Advantage members in the country.** But no, they aren’t real “cuts”, just changes in the rate of growth. Still waiting on that apology from the fact checkers. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2013 "2014-04-08T21:10:27Z")
Also in the news today, insurance rates are up by record amounts primarily due to changes mandated by ACA: > **[Health Plan Premiums Are Skyrocketing According To New Survey Of 148...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgottlieb/2014/04/07/health-plan-premiums-are-skyrocketing-according-to-new-survey-of-148-insurance-brokers-analysts-blame-obamacare/)** > > Health insurance premiums are showing the sharpest increases perhaps ever according to a survey of brokers who sell coverage in the individual and small group market. Morgan Stanley’s healthcare analysts conducted the proprietary survey of 148... ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2014 "2014-04-09T01:35:49Z")
I truly cannot believe that article… 1. Used a sample size of 146 people 2. Spread across at least 15 unique states (wow! 10 per!) 3. Then reported, with a straight face, a 588% increase in one State. > **[Sampling bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_bias)** > > In statistics, sampling bias is a bias in which a sample is collected in such a way that some members of the intended population have a lower or higher sampling probability than others. It results in a biased sample of a population (or non-human factors) in which all individuals, or instances, were not equally likely to have been selected. If this is not accounted for, results can be erroneously attributed to the phenomenon under study rather than to the method of sampling. > Medical sources some... ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2015 "2014-04-09T04:54:34Z")
When Forbes started publishing articles from non-staff “Contributor” writers, I lost a great deal of confidence in the magazine. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2016 "2014-04-09T13:14:54Z")
It’s tragic all the people going to journalism school who are having to take “jobs” as click-bait gathering interns, isn’t it? It’s how crap like the above _Forbes_ article gets published. Sad enough that entire websites ([businessinsider.com](http://businessinsider.com) for one) are based on this model, but when once-proud publications are reduced to this… well, America has lost something. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2017 "2014-04-09T16:23:04Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > It’s tragic all the people going to journalism school who are having to take “jobs” as click-bait gathering interns, isn’t it? It’s how crap like the above _Forbes_ article gets published. Sad enough that entire websites ([businessinsider.com](http://businessinsider.com) for one) are based on this model, but when once-proud publications are reduced to this… well, America has lost something. Speaking of BusinessInsider… Its editor does not inspire much confidence either. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2018 "2014-04-09T16:28:23Z")
You guys seriously ought to check out [this interview](http://www.healthinsurance.org/blog/2014/04/08/reports-of-aca-demise-greatly-exaggerated/) between Harold Pollack and Jonathan Gruber, the man who is widely touted as the chief policy architect of both the original reform in MA as well as the ACA writ large. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2019 "2014-04-10T21:33:34Z")
For those of you who have been following Vermont’s long trek towards single-payer health care, [this is the most in-depth article](http://www.vox.com/2014/4/9/5557696/forget-obamacare-vermont-wants-to-bring-single-payer-to-america) about where things currently stand with that effort. In short: It’s all still full-steam ahead, but the state continues to struggle with divining a suitable financing mechanism. The importance of the statewide success of this effort isn’t lost on the governor, either. It’s also directly related to the ACA because the federal law doesn’t allow for state-based experiments such as VT’s to even begin until 2017. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2020 "2014-04-10T21:38:50Z")
Sebelius says the number of completed signups is now at 7.5 million and it should rise some more. This figure includes people who started the process before March 31 or had trouble enrolling and then got some extra time. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2021 "2014-04-10T22:07:53Z")
Charles Gaba has also posted a pretty solid [debunking](http://acasignups.net/14/04/09/way-about-those-omg-5m-cancelled-policies-updated) of the “OMG FIVE Million cancelled policies” talking point. Worth a read. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=100) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=102)