# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 103
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2042 "2014-04-16T01:42:29Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > I’m not sure that all insurers would be that kind to horses. They shoot horses, don’t they? Sure, but we can’t do that for people until the death panels kick in. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2043 "2014-04-16T13:50:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That is just a silly fantasy that belies Republican’s lack of intellectual honesty. How can they keep all the nice things people like, such as no pre-existing conditions, staying on parents policies until age 26, no benefit caps, and cost/benefit subsidies, without an individual mandate? They can’t. It is just a sop to try to steal support, then they will pull the rug out from under America if they are ever entrusted with governing again. Republicans have no intention of replacing Obamacare with anything but a big sack of Fuck You. Then ACA is already doomed to fail, becuase the individual mandate has no teeth, and the changes the administration made to it pulled out it’s last loose buck tooth. All you have to do to get out of it now is claim hardship and you don’t have to prove it. The mandate is politically untenable, so you’d better hope the law can survive without it. Otherwise, it’s already doomed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2044 "2014-04-16T14:39:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Then ACA is already doomed to fail, becuase the individual mandate has no teeth, and the changes the administration made to it pulled out it’s last loose buck tooth. All you have to do to get out of it now is claim hardship and you don’t have to prove it. > > The mandate is politically untenable, so you’d better hope the law can survive without it. Otherwise, it’s already doomed. Such wishful thinking nonsense. And the ‘politically untenable’ stuff is completely unsupported bullshit. Many GOPers are starting to understand that the ACA is here to stay. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2045 "2014-04-16T16:26:26Z")
Perhaps it is, in writing, In reality though, you yourself have said that without the mandate, it will fail. What I’d like you to explain then is how a mandate with no teeth will succeed. And if it’s not politically untenable, why did Congress forbid the IRS from taking enforcement action against scofflaws other than to dock their refunds? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2046 "2014-04-16T16:33:07Z")
How about explaining the reasoning behind repealing the entire thing only to re-enact parts of it (that even you think look good in polls)? Why not just leave that stuff alone, whatever you ultimately decide it is - is it \*only \*about getting Obama’s name off it? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2047 "2014-04-16T16:38:54Z")
There are several ways to deal with ACA should the GOP win it all in 2016. 1. They can repeal it and just cackle and then weather the consequences in the midterms. 2. They can repeal it and grandfather it. 3. They can repeal it and replace it with the Coburn-Hatch-Burr alternative or something like it. 4. They can repeal it and repass the parts of it they like. 5. They can change ACA by getting rid of the parts they don’t like, but leaving ACA in place. 6. They can be magnanimous and overhaul ACA with Democratic assistance. 7. They can chicken out and leave it in place or just make minor adjustments. If they would rather have the issue, they can blame the filibuster for not taking any action. If the GOP was to win it all in 2016, I’d bet on #2, #4, or #5. Whether you wish to call those things “not repeal” is up to you. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2048 "2014-04-16T16:44:00Z")
BTW, for some strange reason the administration really doesn’t want to know how many people have gained health insurance as a result of ACA: > **[Both Sides in Obamacare Fight Slam Census Bureau](https://news.yahoo.com/both-sides-obamacare-fight-slam-200400041.html;_ylt=A0LEV1Tosk5TUX4Acm5XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTBsa3ZzMnBvBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--)** > > The U.S. Census Bureau set of a mild firestorm in the health policy field on Tuesday after revealing to The New York Times that it was planning to execute a complete overhaul of the way that it measures health insurance coverage in the U.S. The... The U.S. Census Bureau set of a mild firestorm in the health policy field on Tuesday after revealing to The New York Times that it was planning to execute a complete overhaul of the way that it measures health insurance coverage in the U.S. Related Stories The new version of the decades-old survey is designed to get a better read on the number of uninsured people in the country, and is expected to produce results showing the rate as lower, in general, than the old report. The Times reported that the bureau was changing the survey so dramatically, “that it will be difficult to measure the effects of President Obama’s health care law in the next report, due this fall.” Related: Obamacare Battle in Virginia Mirrors National Fight The combination of lower rates of uninsured people and the inability to compare numbers before and after the implementation of Obamacare set off an immediate reaction, not just from the administration’s political opponents, but from health policy researchers and reporters who see the Census data as vital to understanding the impact of the Affordable Care Act. Silly researchers, wanting to get accurate information. Don’t they know that the most rank political administration in history has other priorities? And if the uninsured rate is lower by the new measurements, why didn’t they change it BEFORE passing the bill? Oh wait, had to make it look like there was a crisis in 2009, now they need to make it look like the law is working. They have no faith in their own law. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2049 "2014-04-16T16:45:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Perhaps it is, in writing, In reality though, you yourself have said that without the mandate, it will fail. > > What I’d like you to explain then is how a mandate with no teeth will succeed. > > And if it’s not politically untenable, why did Congress forbid the IRS from taking enforcement action against scofflaws other than to dock their refunds? The mandate is not toothless. It’s not a snap to get out of it – anyone can apply for the hardship, but those applications need not be accepted. I expect the bogus ones to be rejected out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2050 "2014-04-16T16:46:03Z")
They ran against the ACA in 2012 and got their asses handed to them. Now that the law is taking effect and people are benefitting, it’s hard to see how 2014 is going to be much different. Then they’ll run against it again in 2016 and lose the House if they haven’t done so already. > [@](#): > > 1. They can be magnanimous and overhaul ACA with Democratic assistance. Since the GOP has been taken over by the batshit crowd, in the unlikely event of a victory they would be anything but magnaminous. So the one thing that binds the GOP together, the one thing they will go to the last ditch and die for, is to make sure that people don’t get health insurance. Yep, I can see this strategy working big time. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2051 "2014-04-16T16:49:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The mandate is not toothless. It’s not a snap to get out of it – anyone can apply for the hardship, but those applications need not be accepted. I expect the bogus ones to be rejected out of hand. And then they’ll collect the penalty how? Only if someone isn’t smart enough to adjust their withholding. It’ll be interesting to see how many people are actually affected by the penalty this year. What percentage of uninsured do you feel need to be subject to the mandate for it to work? What percentage of people can remain uninsured and the law still work? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2052 "2014-04-16T16:51:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’ll be interesting to see how many people are actually affected by the penalty this year. What percentage of uninsured do you feel need to be subject to the mandate for it to work? I don’t care why they get insurance – whether because they feel they are mandated or because they want it – I just want them to get insurance. > [@](#): > > What percentage of people can remain uninsured and the law still work? For the first year? All it has to show is some continued improvement, even modest improvement. This is not a one-year law. It will take many years to accurately assess its effectiveness. So far, the numbers are looking good. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2053 "2014-04-16T16:52:54Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > They ran against the ACA in 2012 and got their asses handed to them. Now that the law is taking effect and people are benefitting, it’s hard to see how 2014 is going to be much different. Then they’ll run against it again in 2016 and lose the House if they haven’t done so already. The law is also hurting people. We’ll know more about the issue in these coming elections. > [@](#): > > Since the GOP has been taken over by the batshit crowd, in the unlikely event of a victory they would be anything but magnaminous. I agree it’s unlikely, but leadership can influence things and a new GOP President on a honeymoon period could certainly convince Republicans to solicit Democratic ideas for changing the law. Plus it gives the GOP political cover. Aside from Ted Cruz, none of the GOP candidates are fanatics. They’ll come into office wanting things to work. Even if the Tea Party is calling for blood, a President Jindal or President Paul or President Huckabee is going to want to see a change in tone to reassure voters that things are going to be different. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2054 "2014-04-16T16:59:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The law is also hurting people. We’ll know more about the issue in these coming elections. Virtually all of the ads put out by the Koch’s sleazeballs at Americans For Prosperity (sic) have been debunked as lies. When legitmate journalists get hold of these whiners and help them through the ACA process, they find they get better insurance for less money. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2055 "2014-04-16T17:04:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The law is also hurting people. We’ll know more about the issue in these coming elections. We know enough _now_. Short version: No it ain’t; it’s \*helping \*millions of people. But that’s been rubbed in your face enough already that you should know it too. > [@](#): > > Aside from Ted Cruz, none of the GOP candidates are fanatics. They’ll come into office wanting things to work. Even if the Tea Party is calling for blood, a President Jindal or President Paul or President Huckabee is going to want to see a change in tone to reassure voters that things are going to be different. Don’t bogart that joint, dude. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2056 "2014-04-16T17:04:47Z")
This is a case of putting more emphasis on the facts than is justified. If millions of people who lost their insurance got worse deals because they didn’t have the help of a journalist, they will still be pissed. And as for you and Elvis’ insistence that no one has been hurt by the law, whatever. You can go down to defeat thinking that Democrats got robbed. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2057 "2014-04-16T17:10:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > This is a case of putting more emphasis on the facts than is justified. If millions of people who lost their insurance got worse deals because they didn’t have the help of a journalist, they will still be pissed. No, there aren’t millions of people getting a worse deal. There are a few dumb asses that couldn’t figure it out and thought they were getting screwed. Republicans went trolling for them just as they tried to find people who paid estate taxes after Katrina. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2058 "2014-04-16T17:17:59Z")
Well, we’ll find out. This is the first year that a large chunk of ACA has been implemented, plus we get to find out what next year’s rates are going to be just before the election. Voters will judge for themselves how they’ve been affected, because almost everyone has been affected. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2059 "2014-04-16T17:19:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, we’ll find out. This is the first year that a large chunk of ACA has been implemented, plus we get to find out what next year’s rates are going to be just before the election. Voters will judge for themselves how they’ve been affected, because almost everyone has been affected. Just out of curiousity, have you personally been affected? I have not, I had insurance before and will keep my old insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2060 "2014-04-16T17:21:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > This is a case of putting more emphasis on the facts than is justified. I love this sentence so much. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2061 "2014-04-16T17:22:57Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Just out of curiousity, have you personally been affected? I have not, I had insurance before and will keep my old insurance. Due to the coverage requirements, I saw a 28% increase after three straight years of no increases. I did not have free preventive services or contraception coverage for free before. I paid a co-pay. My new premiums cover the cost of eliminating those co-pays. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=102) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=104)