# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 105
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2082 "2014-04-17T21:13:14Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > I guess that Americans want health insurance after all. I know, crazy thought! > > [ACA marketplace enrollments surpass eight million](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/obamacare-enrollment-8-million-105790.html?hp=t1) Lots of important details behind the headline too. > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]About 28 percent of people signing up through [HealthCare.gov](http://HealthCare.gov) – which serves 36 states – were between ages 18 and 34 years old – the “young invincible” age group.[/li] > [li]Another 5 million people enrolled in private coverage outside the Obamacare exchanges.[/li] > [li]Obama sharply criticized states that haven’t expanded Medicaid, **leaving more than 5 million people without access to coverage.** [/li] > [li]The Congressional Budget Office this week released an updated projection that the law would cover 12 million newly-insured people this year. And that estimate is bolstered by the results of a large Gallup survey released Wednesday.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2083 "2014-04-18T06:25:26Z")
Seems like magic or a fake, doesn’t it? There’s a reason: what we have/had is so God-awful fucked up and relentlessly inefficient that even the wretched set of jury-rigged compromises that is ObamaCare works better. When something is that screwed up, any improvement, however clumsy, however compromised, is a bloody miracle by comparison. Every step forward we make towards single-payer will be met with the same wailing and gnashing of teeth. Actually, maybe no, maybe just a bit less. And then, a bit less the next time. Rinse and progress… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2084 "2014-04-18T07:35:00Z")
Single payer. LOL. “Hey, remember that plan we passed in 2009? Yeah, we want to get rid of it now. But you’ll really love our replacement!” “and if you like your Obamacare, you can k-. Aw, forget it, you know you can’t keep it.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2085 "2014-04-18T09:14:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Single payer. LOL. “Hey, remember that plan we passed in 2009? Yeah, we want to get rid of it now. But you’ll really love our replacement!” > > “and if you like your Obamacare, you can k-. Aw, forget it, you know you can’t keep it.” Actually, it would be pretty simple – everything stays the same, but now anyone can sign up for Medicare. It would be like a one paragraph law. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2086 "2014-04-18T09:39:50Z")
It’s not that simple. Medicare for the aged is subsidized. Would everyone be subsidized, or have to pay the full cost of Medicare coverage? Because if you try to subsidize everyone, there’s not enough money. Medicare for all only works if the full cost is borne by the majority of participants. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2087 "2014-04-18T11:10:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s not that simple. Medicare for the aged is subsidized. Would everyone be subsidized, or have to pay the full cost of Medicare coverage? > > Because if you try to subsidize everyone, there’s not enough money. Medicare for all only works if the full cost is borne by the majority of participants. Health care costs for the younger would be far, far cheaper than for older Americans. That being said, it’s possible additional revenue would need to be raised, such as that proposed by [medicareforall.com](http://www.medicareforall.org/pages/HR676#Sec211). But anyway, my point was just to refute your ridiculous “joke” in post 2082. Medicare-for-all is just one proposal of many, it should be noted. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2088 "2014-04-18T11:33:35Z")
Here’s the thing with ACA though. If it works, people will like it and want to keep it. If it doesn’t, then no one will trust the Democrats to overhaul the health care system again. There’s no single payer fairy. And the Medicare-for-all site’s proposal is a fantasy. Medicare is a super expensive program as far as single payer systems go. There are only two paths to making it a reality: vastly higher taxes on working people, or cutting its services down to Medicaid level. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2089 "2014-04-18T11:45:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Here’s the thing with ACA though. If it works, people will like it and want to keep it. If it doesn’t, then no one will trust the Democrats to overhaul the health care system again. In the politics of the real world, outcomes are very rarely this cut and dry. Even if people like the ACA, if it (single-payer) is sold as an improvement and not a replacement, then it might be popular. > [@](#): > > There’s no single payer fairy. And the Medicare-for-all site’s proposal is a fantasy. Medicare is a super expensive program as far as single payer systems go. There are only two paths to making it a reality: vastly higher taxes on working people, or cutting its services down to Medicaid level. Not surprisingly, I’m less than convinced by your citeless claims. It’s very likely it would [save a considerable amount](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/13/opinion/13krugman.html) of health care expenses, overall. But to deflect an unproductive discussion, I’m content to wait and see if the ACA continues to be successful and meet its goals. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2090 "2014-04-18T12:10:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In the politics of the real world, outcomes are very rarely this cut and dry. Even if people like the ACA, if it (single-payer) is sold as an improvement and not a replacement, then it might be popular. It’s not an improvement though, it’s a replacement, unless you’re just talking about adding a public option to ACA as originally planned. > [@](#): > > Not surprisingly, I’m less than convinced by your citeless claims. It’s very likely it would [save a considerable amount](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/13/opinion/13krugman.html) of health care expenses, overall. > > But to deflect an unproductive discussion, I’m content to wait and see if the ACA continues to be successful and meet its goals. Single payer systems save money by paying providers less. But it’s clear we’re not even talking about single payer here, since your hypothetical system would be in direct competition with private insurance. That’s multi-payer. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2091 "2014-04-18T12:20:35Z")
Not going to continue this unproductive (and citeless on your end) discussion. The ACA is doing well and its popularity is improving. Maybe it will be the final answer for health care in the US, but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2092 "2014-04-18T12:25:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Health care costs for the younger would be far, far cheaper than for older Americans. That being said, it’s possible additional revenue would need to be raised, such as that proposed by [medicareforall.com](http://www.medicareforall.org/pages/HR676#Sec211). Our friend is overlooking the \*reduced \*amounts that would be paid to the (bloated, ineffective) private insurance industry, for a net _savings_. > [@](#): > > But anyway, my point was just to refute your ridiculous “joke” in post 2082. Medicare-for-all is just one proposal of many, it should be noted. Right, it’s amazing how so many people think single-payer isn’t even possible for us _when we already have it._ > [@adaher](#): > > Single payer systems save money by paying providers less. More simply making up “facts” to fit a partisan creed. No. Single payer systems, like the entire rest of the civilized world has, are far more efficient financially, due to the low amount of parasitism on them. But you’ve had those facts patiently explained to you enough times already that there’s no point in repetition. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2093 "2014-04-18T15:22:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Here’s the thing with ACA though. If it works, people will like it and want to keep it. If it doesn’t, then no one will trust the Democrats to overhaul the health care system again… “If”? When did that doubtful word creep in? Thought it was all over, tighty righties frolicking in the smoking ruins, high-fives and backslaps all around. Counting up all the votes they were gonna get running against the total, absolute failure. Having a crisis in faith, are you, lad? Maybe not quite so sure as you were? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2094 "2014-04-18T15:50:39Z")
Guys, we shouldn’t let the fact that the law is working distract us from the fact that it’s a failure. It will be a failure no matter how much it succeeds. I know this sounds weird, but it’s an existential thing. It’s a failure by definition and that can never change, so the facts are irrelevant. If it’s working, it’s really only failing to fail. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2095 "2014-04-18T16:20:25Z")
Even the facts \*themselves \*fail to be properly factual! Oh well, by 2016, or soon after, the Pubs will be claiming it’s all their idea anyway, with the Heritage Foundation and Mitt Romney its true parents (that much will even be reasonably factual, too), and will be calling it RepubliCare or something like that, instead of the name they’ve chosen that has backfired on them so badly. Then soon after comes the Medicare expansion bill, aka single payer … ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2096 "2014-04-18T17:29:35Z")
They can have all the credit, don’t give a fuck, long as they vote right. Want every child in America toddling off to a good school with a full tummy and full vaccinations. Want every pregnant woman to have every advantage of pre-natal care, and every woman to choose her time for motherhood, at her discretion and none other. Want every old fart to be freed from needless worry about their children, their grandchildren, so on and so forth, praise the Goddess! (Didn’t used to worry so much about old farts, but I’ve grown in wisdom…) Gimmee that, you can paint my butt blue and call me Rosie, for all I give a shit who takes the credit. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2097 "2014-04-18T17:43:59Z")
I don’t give a shit about that either, but \*they \*do. All the evidence you need is in the belligerently-stated desire to repeal what they call “Obamacare”, only to \*reinstate \*virtually all of it intact. The real GOP goal is simply to leave a popular program in place, but repeal Obama’s \*credit \*for it, nothing more. Ain’t that right, **adaher**? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2098 "2014-04-18T17:49:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Even the facts \*themselves \*fail to be properly factual! Don’t fall into that trap of putting more emphasis on the facts than is justified… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2099 "2014-04-18T18:00:37Z")
“Facts are the enemy of Truth!” - Don Quixote ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2100 "2014-04-18T21:14:40Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > “Facts are the enemy of Truth!” > > - Don Quixote Good one - back at you with my new sig which works well in this thread… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2101 "2014-04-19T04:03:23Z")
The law is working in the sense that it’s transforming the insurance market. Unfortunately for Democrats, that’s not what the public signed up for. But again, we’ll hash this out over the next few elections. I promise not to be a sore whiny loser if you will. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=104) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=106)