# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 109
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2162 "2014-04-22T19:43:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Anybody want to cite the numbers of people who are “against/oppose” ACA because it doesn’t go far _enough_? I would, but its like trying to batter down a brick wall with a Nerf bat. We’ve had that discussion. Problem is, no one, including you, knows what it all means. They say they oppose ACA, yet they support it and will support Democrats who support it, and they will fight against repeal? You have no idea. It’s not unusual at all in politics for people supposedly on your side to sabotage your work because they didn’t get what they wanted. Happens all the time. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2163 "2014-04-22T19:46:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > A majority opposes repeal. You’re wrong: [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/repeal\_of\_health\_care\_law\_favoroppose-1947.html](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/repeal_of_health_care_law_favoroppose-1947.html) Granted, the polls are old, but for whatever reason no one is asking the question anymore. But as of the last polls, a majority did in fact favor repeal. Since the approval/disapproval numbers haven’t moved, I wouldn’t expect these to have moved either. Or I could be generous and assume you’re referring to polls where repeal and keep aren’t the only options. Fine, but again, what fixes do the public want, and would those fixes undermine the law? Would they have any chance of passing? If not, then people do in fact have to choose repeal or keep, because in the real world we can only deal with actual proposals, not theoretical repeals of this or that provision that no one in Congress is willing to consider. And when people are asked the either/or question, they prefer repeal. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2164 "2014-04-22T19:49:58Z")
No, you really _don’t_ read your own cites. Or else you’d have noticed the word “opposed”, not the word “repeal”. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2165 "2014-04-22T19:51:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They say they oppose ACA, yet they support it and will support Democrats who support it, and they will fight against repeal? Yes. It’s not hard to understand. > [@](#): > > It’s not unusual at all in politics for people supposedly on your side to sabotage your work because they didn’t get what they wanted. Happens all the time. Like when? And what evidence do you have of it being the case this time? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2166 "2014-04-22T19:55:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Granted, the polls are old, but for whatever reason no one is asking the question anymore. But as of the last polls, a majority did in fact favor repeal. Since the approval/disapproval numbers haven’t moved, I wouldn’t expect these to have moved either. Yes, those polls are really, really old. And actually, the approval/disapproval numbers have moved. You’re just wrong about everything here. > [@](#): > > Or I could be generous and assume you’re referring to polls where repeal and keep aren’t the only options. You’re being “generous”? LOL. There are recent polls and cites, like from **GIGO** in post 2154, (and [this one](http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/most-americans-sick-obamacare-debate)) that show a majority (and a pretty good-sized one!) opposes repeal. You can pretend like the fact that there are multiple choices negates that, but that’s just childish and ridiculous (and, again, sour grapes). Find a recent poll that shows a majority wants to repeal the bill. Otherwise, you are very wrong here. > [@](#): > > And when people are asked the either/or question, they prefer repeal. Find a recent poll that shows this. Otherwise, the actual recent polls that have been cited are far more representative of the current reality. Accept current reality. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2167 "2014-04-22T19:58:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No, you really _don’t_ read your own cites. > > Or else you’d have noticed the word “opposed”, not the word “repeal”. YOu didn’t read my cite. It’s four polls that ask “favor repeal” or “oppose repeal”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2168 "2014-04-22T20:01:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yes. It’s not hard to understand. Okay, so they oppose the law, but support the law. Right. > [@](#): > > Like when? And what evidence do you have of it being the case this time? Like anytime a tough primary battle is fought and those who don’t like the winner but are supposedly in his party defect. The polls only show a small percentage of people who oppose the law and yet want it to go further. It’s a percentage typical of disgruntled supporters of candidates who lose, causing a small percentage of their supporters to either stay home or go to the other side. “Oppose” does not mean “support” no matter how you try to explain it. The question is simple enough for a 2nd grader to understand. Respondents mean exactly what they say. Their reasons for it do not change that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2169 "2014-04-22T20:02:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > “Oppose” does not mean “support” no matter how you try to explain it. The question is simple enough for a 2nd grader to understand. Respondents mean exactly what they say. Their reasons for it do not change that. LOL. So this means you accept that, based on the most recent polls, only a minority (and a pretty small one!) of the public wants to repeal the ACA? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2170 "2014-04-22T20:05:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes, those polls are really, really old. And actually, the approval/disapproval numbers have moved. You’re just wrong about everything here. You’re wrong about both, and looking foolish for insisting that I am. The polls have not moved, all that’s happened is that you see an outlier or two and put your hopes in it. Despite those outliers, the overall numbers remain unchanged. See the trend chart: [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama\_and\_democrats\_health\_care\_plan-1130.html](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html) There is no movement and there hasn’t been except for spikes here and there based on headlines before everything reverts back to the usual. > [@](#): > > You’re being “generous”? LOL. There are recent polls and cites, like from **GIGO** in post 2154, (and [this one](http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/most-americans-sick-obamacare-debate)) that show a majority (and a pretty good-sized one!) opposes repeal. You can pretend like the fact that there are multiple choices negates that, but that’s just childish and ridiculous (and, again, sour grapes). No, childish and ricidulous is believing that “I oppose” means “I support”. It’s also ridiculous to believe that changes that will never happen magically turn people into supporters. If someone wants the health care law changed with Amendment A, and their opposition to repeal is based on that change, no change=back to supporting repeal. Plus you have no freakin’ clue what changes the people want. Despite the fact that the individual mandate is the most unpopular part of the law, you insist on believing that that couldn’t possibly be what those supporting changes want. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2171 "2014-04-22T20:07:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > LOL. So this means you accept that, based on the most recent polls, only a minority (and a pretty small one!) of the public wants to repeal the ACA? I accept that if we give people the changes they demand, that support for the law will increase. Now, what changes are they, and will Reid bring those changes up for a vote? So far, he’s not even bringing up the six Democrats’ changes for a vote, and those are not huge changes. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2172 "2014-04-22T20:11:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You’re wrong about both, and looking foolish for insisting that I am. The polls have not moved, all that’s happened is that you see an outlier or two and put your hopes in it. Despite those outliers, the overall numbers remain unchanged. See the trend chart: > > [RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Public Approval of Health Care Law](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html) > > There is no movement and there hasn’t been except for spikes here and there based on headlines before everything reverts back to the usual. There’s lots of movement. It’s all over the place. And in any case, this poll has nothing to do with support for repeal. > [@](#): > > No, childish and ricidulous is believing that “I oppose” means “I support”. Which I don’t believe… though, apparently you believe “I oppose” means “I support repeal”, when as we can see by the actual recent polling that asks about repeal is very untrue. > [@](#): > > It’s also ridiculous to believe that changes that will never happen magically turn people into supporters. If someone wants the health care law changed with Amendment A, and their opposition to repeal is based on that change, no change=back to supporting repeal. This is hypothetical nonsense. There’s no way to know how someone would answer a question phrased in different ways. > [@](#): > > Plus you have no freakin’ clue what changes the people want. Despite the fact that the individual mandate is the most unpopular part of the law, you insist on believing that that couldn’t possibly be what those supporting changes want. I’ve never said this. Perhaps lots of people want to get rid of the mandate (though I’ve seen no evidence that a majority do at this time). I don’t think it should be gotten rid of, and I hope it stays. It’s also not going away, at least not until the Republicans get the White House. The most recent polling shows that only a small minority support repealing the ACA. This is a fact. The statement “a majority support repealing the ACA at this time” is not supported by the polling. You are incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2173 "2014-04-22T20:12:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I accept that if we give people the changes they demand, that support for the law will increase. > > Now, what changes are they, and will Reid bring those changes up for a vote? So far, he’s not even bringing up the six Democrats’ changes for a vote, and those are not huge changes. Solid goal-post shift and subject change. I give it a B+. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2174 "2014-04-22T20:19:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Okay, so they oppose the law, but support the law. Right. Okay, let me modify the statement: _For most people_, it isn’t hard to understand. > [@](#): > > Like anytime a tough primary battle is fought and those who don’t like the winner but are supposedly in his party defect. You were asked for a real example. When has that ever happened in any significant numbers? You were also asked for any facts that lead to your belief it’s happening with ACA. Your lack of response is telling. > [@](#): > > The polls only show a small percentage of people who oppose the law and yet want it to go further. As they should, since you’re insisting on a nonsensical definition. > [@](#): > > “Oppose” does not mean “support” no matter how you try to explain it. The question is simple enough for a 2nd grader to understand. Yes, second-graders do often tend to think Yes and No, For or Against are a complete set of answers. For voting-age people, it’s not nearly so common, although we do have evidence that it exists. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2175 "2014-04-22T20:21:05Z")
A minority favor repeal IF they get the changes they want. Since those changes aren’t going to happen… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2176 "2014-04-22T20:22:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A minority favor repeal IF they get the changes they want. Since those changes aren’t going to happen… This is not what the recent polling says. You are trying to extrapolate, but you’re failing at it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2177 "2014-04-22T20:32:17Z")
They favor keeping the law with changes. IT’s pretty self-explanatory. I’m sure someone will ask the repeal/no repeal question again. Betcha a majority favors repeal. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2178 "2014-04-22T21:01:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A minority favor repeal IF they get the changes they want. Since those changes aren’t going to happen… A minority favor repeal if the law is changed to a form that they prefer? Huh? Da fuq? I’m not sure if you have explicitly answered this question, so here it is: do you honestly believe, scout’s honor, honest engine, cross your heart and hope for pie…that repeal of Obamacare is the Republican Party’s best hope for massive electoral victory? ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2179 "2014-04-22T21:02:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We’ve had that discussion. Problem is, no one, including you, knows what it all means. They say they oppose ACA, yet they support it and will support Democrats who support it, and they will fight against repeal? Since I’m one of them, I _do_ know what I mean, and it’s more or less exactly that. I think the ACA is a terrible law because it doesn’t actually solve a lot of the problems – particularly controlling medical costs in a system where every step has to be “for profit”–and I think real single-payer would be better. But I know for a fact that those who want to repeal it aren’t actually planning on replacing it with real single-payer, and in fact want to replace it with something even worse (“nothing,” generally, no matter what they say). So yes, I oppose the ACA, yet I support it and will support Democrats who support it, and will fight against repeal. It’ll have to do as a first step toward what we really need. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2180 "2014-04-22T21:33:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > A minority favor repeal if the law is changed to a form that they prefer? Huh? Da fuq? > > I’m not sure if you have explicitly answered this question, so here it is: do you honestly believe, scout’s honor, honest engine, cross your heart and hope for pie…that repeal of Obamacare is the Republican Party’s best hope for massive electoral victory? No. In fact, I think repeal comes with more costs than benefits politically. However, I do think repeal is a better idea than keeping it from a policy perspective. So I’d be willing to take some lumps to see it happen. The problem with any policy change is that the angry people are going to be more motivated than the satisfied people. Right now, the 12 million that got insurance aren’t as likely to vote as those who lost their insurance and/or doctor, or fear they will. If you repeal ACA, you flip that around. Now 12 million people lost their insurance, which will have consequences. One thing I would be willing to be though is that the GOP wouldn’t take losses as heavy as Democrats did in 2010 or are predicted to in 2014. The insured outnumber the uninsured and likely vote more to boot. Taking away people’s ACA insurance is going to be less costly than messing around with the insurance people already have. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2181 "2014-04-22T21:35:03Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > So yes, I oppose the ACA, yet I support it and will support Democrats who support it, and will fight against repeal. It’ll have to do as a first step toward what we really need. So you oppose ACA, but support it. You should just say you support it, since in effect, you do actually support it. There’s only one path to single payer, dude: repeal and replace. If ACA gets entrenched, it’s what our health care system is for the next 100 years. Switzerland and Germany ain’t going single payer. Neither are we if this law stays. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=108) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=110)