# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 112
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2222 "2014-04-26T14:58:40Z")
> [@](#): > > …These plans are less expensive than regular medical insurance because they are less robust. And new federal regulations would make it illegal for insurers to sell these plans as stand-alone insurance coverage… > [@](#): > > …This change has been lauded by consumer advocates, who say the whole point of health reform is ensuring Americans into better health insurance plans. But its been criticized by insurers and some regulators for eliminating a source of coverage for those who can’t afford a true medical plan… > [@](#): > > …Fixed-benefit plans don’t provide the kind of health-expense coverage most people are used to… > [@](#): > > …Fixed-benefit plans tend to offer more freedom – but they’re also much less robust coverage. Because they’re not considered medical insurance, fixed benefit plans are exempted from most Affordable Care Act requirements… > [@](#): > > …“On their own, they’re not comprehensive coverage that protects people against risk,” says Judy Solomon, vice president for health policy at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. “They have the potential to mislead consumers, who think they’re getting actual protection.” > > A fixed-benefit plan that pays $100 per day spent in the hospital, for example, will fall far short of the average cost of a one-day hospital stay: $4,293… You are moving away from broad, sweeping statements without substantiation to broad, sweeping statements with entirely inadequate support. This is an improvement. Sorta. Kinda. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2223 "2014-04-26T16:24:35Z")
[Here is an article](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/health-care-affordable-care-act-obamacare-2016-elections-106043.html?hp=t1) which suggests the ways that GOP presidential hopefuls will handle Obamacare in the 2016 race. For fuck sake, the very _idea_ of taking the repeal/don’t-repeal ACA fight into the 2016 election - **six years** after it became the law - seems enormously stupid to me. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2224 "2014-04-26T16:59:39Z")
These are the same people who’ve actually tried to repeal, er, their word is “privatize” Social Security, remember? And repeal the Civil Rights Act. They want to repeal what amounts to the entire 20th century, as if they were some kind of historical re-enactment group that pines for what they imagine the antebellum years to have been, full of states’ rights bluster and such. Gotta wonder sometimes if the congressional GOP caucus meetings are full of men wearing frock coats, dipping snuff while sipping porter brought to them by colored servants, denouncing the perfidy of the abolitionists and the agitators of the working classes … Maybe in another generation they’ll move on to blustering about tariffs and bimetallism. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2225 "2014-04-26T18:32:37Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > For fuck sake, the very _idea_ of taking the repeal/don’t-repeal ACA fight into the 2016 election - **six years** after it became the law - seems enormously stupid to me. I know, right? What do they think it is, the second amendment? ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2226 "2014-04-26T20:08:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You are moving away from broad, sweeping statements without substantiation to broad, sweeping statements with entirely inadequate support. This is an improvement. Sorta. Kinda. Many insurance plans have defined benefit elements. That does not make them bad insurance plans, even in the health insurance arena. Medigap plans have such components and just imagine the hell that the AARP would rain down upon any politician proposing to eliminate such plans. The question is whether a plan with a defined benefit element, in the context of an individual’s overall insurance cover and financial status, makes sense. By the administration attempting to force the elimination of such plans for certain persons they are taking it upon themselves to substitute their judgment for the consumer’s. Maybe the Obama administration should change the line to, “if you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan, _unless we don’t like your health care plan_.” As the article noted, the administration’s proposal would ban such stand alone plans for persons who are not required to have coverage under the PPACA and persons who are not eligible for medicaid due to their state’s failure to implement medicaid expansion. Nice way to kick someone when they are down. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2227 "2014-04-27T02:33:45Z")
Elucidator, it doesn’t matter. He made a promise. He CLAIMS that he didn’t know the promise would end up being invalid. Well, these plans have not yet been cancelled. It would be very easy for him to keep these plans from being cancelled. That is, if he ever intended to keep his promise and wasn’t just lying like a mofo. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2228 "2014-04-27T02:40:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Elucidator, it doesn’t matter. He made a promise. He CLAIMS that he didn’t know the promise would end up being invalid. Well, these plans have not yet been cancelled. It would be very easy for him to keep these plans from being cancelled. That is, if he ever intended to keep his promise and wasn’t just lying like a mofo. Is that really the best you can hang you hat on - that a “promise” made by the president invalidates the entire law? Not whether the law works, whether the country is better off, if it saves money, if is liked / disliked, if it produces (net) better outcomes? But rather that a simplistic promise made has been broken? And yeah - it is a simplistic promise, and the number of people that have actually lost their insurance due to inadequate coverage is small. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2229 "2014-04-27T02:54:40Z")
And it can be stopped at the number it is now. He can’t make insurance companies re-offer plans that are already cancelled, but he can prevent his law from requiring cancellation of plans that insurance companies are currently happy to offer. These plans should remain in place if the people who have them like them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2230 "2014-04-27T05:19:28Z")
Are all the health insurance vendors paragons of virtue? Do any of them sell shitty plans, or are all these policies woefully misjudged? And if there are shitty, unacceptable plans on the market, why are they sold? Are the insurance vendors “currently happy to offer them…”? Might that reason have something to do with profitability? If the President had said “Some of you have some really shitty health plans, plans that ensucken dead donkey balls. But if you have a really shitty plan, and you’re dumb enough to like it that way, you get to keep it!”, would that have made you happier? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2231 "2014-04-27T05:30:26Z")
It’s not for him to decide what’s good and not good. That decision is between a customer and a business. There are ACA plans on the exchanges, subsidized. If the customers of these plans want them, 100% of them can get them. If they don’t want them, then they should be able to keep what they have. It was not just a promise, it was a promise punctuated with, “Those who tell you otherwise are dirty stinkin’ liars!” It would really behoove him to keep his commitment to these people. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2232 "2014-04-27T07:56:07Z")
Are you conflating Obama with government in general, as in “big government” intrusion? Because it is definitely within the purview to make laws to further the well-being of the public. Does Obama make people wear seat-belts, for instance? There are laws to protect people from buying really shitty mortgages. Well, at least _fraudulent_ mortgages, really shitty ones are still available for those who wish to exercise their freedumb of choice. Mathtards, for instance, who are not fully aware of the Miracle of Compounded Interest. So, what’ so different about insurance? If the government determines that a subset of insurance offerings are not suitable for public consumption, are they somehow overstepping their authority to regulate them sternly? Is the dumbass consumer the ordained prey of the quick red fox? If we protect the dull from being taken advantage of by the clever, does this somehow disturb the natural order of things? Is he totally wrong, or are some of these policies actually that bad? The people who sell them, they don’t _know_ they aren’t very good? Are we somehow obligated to allow this to happen, because freedom? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2233 "2014-04-27T08:12:21Z")
And this just in, by way of our good friends at _Daily Kos_… > **[Aetna CEO: The company is doing just fine with Obamacare](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/24/1294409/-Aetna-CEO-The-company-is-doing-just-fine-with-nbsp-Obamacare?detail=hide)** > > Thursday morning, Aetna Chief Executive Mark ... **Aetna CEO: The company is doing just fine with Obamacare** > [@](#): > > Thursday morning, Aetna Chief Executive Mark Bertolini reported the company’s first quarter results under the Affordable Care Act, a report that essentially tracks with the Congressional Budget Office’s updated, optimistic forecast of large enrollments and modest premium hikes. Bertolini told reporters that enrollments were robust:… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2234 "2014-04-27T08:45:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Are you conflating Obama with government in general, as in “big government” intrusion? Because it is definitely within the purview to make laws to further the well-being of the public. Does Obama make people wear seat-belts, for instance? > > There are laws to protect people from buying really shitty mortgages. Well, at least _fraudulent_ mortgages, really shitty ones are still available for those who wish to exercise their freedumb of choice. Mathtards, for instance, who are not fully aware of the Miracle of Compounded Interest. > > So, what’ so different about insurance? If the government determines that a subset of insurance offerings are not suitable for public consumption, are they somehow overstepping their authority to regulate them sternly? > > Is the dumbass consumer the ordained prey of the quick red fox? If we protect the dull from being taken advantage of by the clever, does this somehow disturb the natural order of things? Is he totally wrong, or are some of these policies actually that bad? The people who sell them, they don’t _know_ they aren’t very good? Are we somehow obligated to allow this to happen, because freedom? You’re overthinking it. he said quite clearly that you could keep your insurance plan. He also claimed he didn’t know that would not be the case. Now he’s forewarned that plans are about to be cancelled, and he is in a position to prevent it from happening. I’d also be interested in the thoughts of democrats who claim they want people to keep their plans and are supposedly outraged that this didn’t happen. They should be heavily lobbying the President right about now. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2235 "2014-04-27T14:49:57Z")
Most of us probably knew this already, but [Healthcare.gov](http://Healthcare.gov) is not [completely out of the woods yet.](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/healthcaregov-obamacare-affordable-care-act-106036.html?hp=l5) This is something to keep an eye on, for sure. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2236 "2014-04-27T17:27:16Z")
“Overthinking”? Well, thinking, at any rate. Simple question, really, are some of these plans shitty? And if they are, shouldn’t something be done about it? And while we’re about it, who are these Democrats who are “claiming” things and are “supposedly” outraged? Once again, you insinuate much and support nothing. You see, how this works is, you got, you bring. You no bring, you probably no got. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2237 "2014-04-28T13:23:23Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > [Healthcare.gov](http://Healthcare.gov) is not [completely out of the woods yet.](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/healthcaregov-obamacare-affordable-care-act-106036.html?hp=l5) This is something to keep an eye on, for sure. Only if there’s reason to believe it’s going to \*stay \*in the woods. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2238 "2014-04-28T16:09:50Z")
And many of us lack the purity of friend **adaher** ’s perspective, wherein the concept of lie is a pristine and discrete entity, impervious to nuance. Recently, for instance, “The President lied” was the first half of a common meme, “The President lied, and people died”. We don’t actually know how many, when the people who die are brownish and Muslim, large, round numbers tend to dominate. Somewhere north of one hundred thousand, it gets kinda blurry. The President lied, and who is going to die? Gets a mite fuzzy on that point, it may well be that more people will be better served. But for **adaher** , that is beside the point, inconsequential when compared to the stark horror of a mendacious President. By comparison, the health care debacle is likely to cause some deaths, deaths of people who are denied the Medicaid expansion by Republican governors because freedom. Are they lying? Hard to know, peering into the Republican mindset can be disconcerting, a writhing mass of grey and squamous tentacles, like a lunch date with Cthulu. But let us assume that they are not lying, that they sincerely believe that socialized medicine is worse than no medicine at all, that they sincerely believe that people without a sound investment portfolio should be content to rely on mud and leeches. A thorny ethical problem, to be sure, complex and intricate. Are Republicans who sincerely put their fellow citizens to a life of suffering and yes, death…are such sincere ideologues morally superior to a President who lies to an opposite purpose? I lean towards “No.” Actually, not just “No”, but “Hell! No!, Fuck NO!, you gotta be fucking kidding me NO!”. Perhaps that’s because as a depraved lefty, I lack the purity and clarity of **adaher** ’s moral distinctions. That’s OK, he can keep them. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2239 "2014-04-28T16:16:04Z")
And **elucidator** does an admirable job living up to his name. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2240 "2014-04-28T18:17:10Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Only if there’s reason to believe it’s going to \*stay \*in the woods. Yeah, I don’t doubt for a second that the website will be fully operational eventually, but obviously, the longer it takes to finish the back-end, the more likely it is that new complications might arise. It certainly needs to be finished well in advance of the next open enrollment period, for sure. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2241 "2014-04-28T18:42:03Z")
True enough about the back end, but politically, the message is now “The website is fixed and over 8 million people have signed up”. That’s not going back. Incidentally, the Oregon state site, also a massive screwup brought to you by CGI (why would \*anybody \*deal with those clowns anymore?), has been taken down in favor of the federal site. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=111) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=113)