# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 114
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2262 "2014-05-03T16:24:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If they have Medicare Advantage, it was cut. Although not as much as planned. Not because the law doesn’t cut Medicare Advantage, but because the administration hasn’t been brave enough to take the full heat that goes with actually cutting MA in accordance with the law they signed. Since Medicare Advantage costs money and doesn’t provide better outcomes than not having it, why are you against it being cut? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2263 "2014-05-03T16:52:31Z")
Not the point. If Obama’s lie saved a hundred thousand puppies, brought peace to the Middle East and brought crunchy goodness all across our nation, he still lied. Lied, lied, lied! The horror. The horror. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2264 "2014-05-05T14:58:51Z")
And just like that, [Gallup now records the lowest uninsurance rate](http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117644/gallup-says-uninsured-down-134-percent-lowest-theyve-recorded) that they’ve _ever_ recorded, at 13.4%. At this point, it is indisputably stupid to argue that the ACA isn’t having a dramatic impact on reducing the uninsured population in this country. But…death panels. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2265 "2014-05-05T19:32:17Z")
That is impressive. Of course, if it didn’t put up an impressive number it would have failed at its core goal. It’s nice to cheer this success, but you also have to remember that this was EXPECTED by the people who passed the bill. Otherwise, what was the point? Here’s what ACA still hasn’t done: reduced health care costs by $2500 per family, or allowed everyone to keep their doctor or health insurance. So hey, 1 out of 3 ain’t bad. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2266 "2014-05-05T21:08:30Z")
Your team is zero for three, so far. Of course, they didn’t bother to suit up… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2267 "2014-05-05T21:22:04Z")
I’d like to make a callback to [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=717981&page=3), in which **adaher** and **Terr** both pooh-poohed the lowering rate of uninsured. Nanny nanny nanny, both of you were very wrong in this particular instance. The uninsured rate is dropping rapidly. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2268 "2014-05-05T21:48:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If they have Medicare Advantage, it was cut. Sticking with that bit of “misinformation” right to the end, despite having had it explained to you more than once already, aren’t you? Okay, there being no point to trying it again, we here in the Reality-Based Community are entitled to simply keep pointing and laughing. > [@](#): > > the administration hasn’t been brave enough to take the full heat that goes with actually cutting MA in accordance with the law they signed. So even when he does give in to your guys’ whining and lies, even a little bit like that, you _still_ find that something to criticize him for? 😃 A-fuckin’-mazing, dude. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2269 "2014-05-05T23:04:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So even when he does give in to your guys’ whining and lies, even a little bit like that, you _still_ find that something to criticize him for? By definition, _everything_ Obama does is wrong. It’s really that simple (minded). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2270 "2014-05-06T15:48:28Z")
Medicare Advantage has been cut. Democrats just claim that the cut is to providers only and doesn’t affect benefits. Oh wait, and we’re only cutting the “rate of growth”, even though that’s all the Ryan budget does, yet the cuts are “savage”. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2271 "2014-05-06T15:58:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Medicare Advantage has been cut. Democrats just claim that the cut is to providers only and doesn’t affect benefits. So yes, you \*are \*going to keep this up. 😉 Not that you’ve left yourself any other options, of course. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2272 "2014-05-06T16:00:01Z")
Well, at least it gives you something to whine about if the Republicans use that attack successfully in 2014. After all, it’s not like Democrats would EVER resort to Mediscare tactics. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2273 "2014-05-06T16:13:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Medicare Advantage has been cut. Democrats just claim that the cut is to providers only and doesn’t affect benefits. > > Oh wait, and we’re only cutting the “rate of growth”, even though that’s all the Ryan budget does, yet the cuts are “savage”. Really? That’s all the Ryan budget does? Wow, and I had such a negative opinion about it, and am forced to rethink that opinion due to this new and startling information! I really should be more skeptical, learn not to accept stuff without proof. Heck, might as well start here! So, prove it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2274 "2014-05-06T16:20:18Z")
Spending grows under the Ryan budget, just more slowly than under current law. THe cuts mostly aren’t specified. Republicans have tried many times to cut the rate of growth of specific programs. Democrats have always attacked those as “cuts”. Now they have the audacity to do that to Medicare Advantage and furthermore accuse others of lying. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2275 "2014-05-06T23:58:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > …THe cuts mostly aren’t specified… Yes, that was my impression. Rather vague, isn’t it, for a “plan”? I trust you can understand how we might regard it with some concern. Worry. OK, fear and loathing. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2276 "2014-05-07T02:22:33Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Overthinking”? Well, thinking, at any rate. > [@elucidator](#): > > And many of us lack the purity of friend **adaher** ’s perspective, wherein the concept of lie is a pristine and discrete entity, impervious to nuance. Recently, for instance, “The President lied” was the first half of a common meme, “The President lied, and people died”. We don’t actually know how many, when the people who die are brownish and Muslim, large, round numbers tend to dominate. Somewhere north of one hundred thousand, it gets kinda blurry. > > The President lied, and who is going to die? Gets a mite fuzzy on that point, it may well be that more people will be better served. But for **adaher** , that is beside the point, inconsequential when compared to the stark horror of a mendacious President. > > By comparison, the health care debacle is likely to cause some deaths, deaths of people who are denied the Medicaid expansion by Republican governors because freedom. Are they lying? Hard to know, peering into the Republican mindset can be disconcerting, a writhing mass of grey and squamous tentacles, like a lunch date with Cthulu. But let us assume that they are not lying, that they sincerely believe that socialized medicine is worse than no medicine at all, that they sincerely believe that people without a sound investment portfolio should be content to rely on mud and leeches. > > A thorny ethical problem, to be sure, complex and intricate. Are Republicans who sincerely put their fellow citizens to a life of suffering and yes, death…are such sincere ideologues morally superior to a President who lies to an opposite purpose? > > I lean towards “No.” Actually, not just “No”, but “Hell! No!, Fuck NO!, you gotta be fucking kidding me NO!”. Perhaps that’s because as a depraved lefty, I lack the purity and clarity of **adaher** ’s moral distinctions. > > That’s OK, he can keep them. > [@elucidator](#): > > Not the point. If Obama’s lie saved a hundred thousand puppies, brought peace to the Middle East and brought crunchy goodness all across our nation, he still lied. Lied, lied, lied! > > The horror. The horror. What is the copyright status of SDMB postings? I think some of the messages in this thread could be combined into a prize-winning playscript. I’ve not decided whether the play should imitate the style of Eugène Ionesco or Samuel Beckett, but _Elucidator’s Soliloquy_ will be the highlight. > [@adaher](#): > > Not to mention it should be impossible for there to be fewer people insured. The possibility shouldn’t even exist. It certainly never crossed the minds of even the harshest critics. > > Now supporters are acting like it’s no big deal. Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet, eh? > > Given all that supporters of ACA have said about us conservatives, it’s time to turn their moralizing back on them. Supposedly, people just “lay down and die” when they don’t have health insurance. Every person who was insured last year who isn’t insured now and dies due to lack of health insurance.is on the heads of the Democratic Party. … Or maybe the script should be patterned after Shakespeare’s _Comedy of Errors_. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2277 "2014-05-07T13:53:47Z")
Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2278 "2014-05-07T15:11:35Z")
That’s the, uh, Scottish play. Not for TV, already too much Saxon violence on TV. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2279 "2014-05-07T15:20:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That’s the, uh, Scottish play. Not for TV, already too much Saxon violence on TV. Don’t let a Scot hear you call them Saxon 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2280 "2014-05-09T17:19:28Z")
[From Salon:](http://www.salon.com/2014/05/08/party_of_moral_failures_why_obamacare_foes_are_about_to_pay_a_price/) “Party of moral failures: Why Obamacare foes are about to pay a price” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2281 "2014-05-09T17:46:02Z")
> [@Double\_Foolscap](#): > > Don’t let a Scot hear you call them Saxon 😉 Shit, the Irish gave the Scots the bagpipe a thousand years ago, and the Scots never caught on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=113) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=115)