# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 115
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2282 "2014-05-11T14:12:31Z")
Hey, would you look at this: [61% of Americans](http://politicalwire.com/archives/2014/05/11/majority_want_to_keep_obamacare.html#.U293Z0Pj6Ns.twitter) favor keeping the ACA or otherwise improving it. No wonder the Rethugs have gone back to #Benghazi. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2283 "2014-05-11T16:22:48Z")
Again, not very useful until you know what changes Americans want, and whether the Democrats are willing to pass such changes. In the real world, Americans currently have only two choices: leave the law as is, or repeal it. How’s that bill to reform Obamacare by the six Democrats trying to save their skins doing? Has Reid put it on the schedule yet? And keep in mind, those are really minor changes. What are the chances that Reid would approve a repeal of the individual mandate, or reducing the coverage requirements so that the plans could be a little cheaper? Don’t think for a minute Republicans have given up on ACA. Democrats are standing foursquare to defend the law as is, with only the most minor tweaks being approved. The Democrats believe that the law is good as it is and needs very few minor changes. If the public wants ACA as it is now, then they should vote Democrat, by all means. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2284 "2014-05-11T16:28:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Again, not very useful until you know what changes Americans want, and whether the Democrats are willing to pass such changes. > > In the real world, Americans currently have only two choices: leave the law as is, or repeal it. How’s that bill to reform Obamacare by the six Democrats trying to save their skins doing? Has Reid put it on the schedule yet? And keep in mind, those are really minor changes. What are the chances that Reid would approve a repeal of the individual mandate, or reducing the coverage requirements so that the plans could be a little cheaper? > > Don’t think for a minute Republicans have given up on ACA. Democrats are standing foursquare to defend the law as is, with only the most minor tweaks being approved. The Democrats believe that the law is good as it is and needs very few minor changes. If the public wants ACA as it is now, then they should vote Democrat, by all means. Or vote GOP and get what again? The GOP is full of promises, but where is their specific plan again? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2285 "2014-05-11T16:30:33Z")
Repeal. In the real world, the two choices are keep ACA as is, or repeal. There is no middle ground as of yet and no sign that one is emerging. So that is the choice that Americans are presented with. Repeal or keep as is. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2286 "2014-05-11T16:32:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Again, not very useful until you know what changes Americans want, and whether the Democrats are willing to pass such changes. > > In the real world, Americans currently have only two choices: leave the law as is, or repeal it. Will the GOP health reform plan cover excluded middles? If the GOP health reform plan ever actually exists. ETA: Ninja’ed by **Lobohan**! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2287 "2014-05-11T17:29:18Z")
Beats me. There is a GOP alternative, I just don’t know if that alternative has enough support to pass a GOP congress. I guess we’ll find out in Jan. 2015.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2288 "2014-05-11T17:37:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Beats me. There is a GOP alternative, I just don’t know if that alternative has enough support to pass a GOP congress. I guess we’ll find out in Jan. 2015.🙂 Please post the [thomas.loc.gov](http://thomas.loc.gov) link to the GOP health reform legislation, as introduced, so we may evaluate it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2289 "2014-05-11T19:51:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Repeal. In the real world, the two choices are keep ACA as is, or repeal. There is no middle ground as of yet and no sign that one is emerging. So that is the choice that Americans are presented with. Repeal or keep as is. Oh, I agree. Now if we only knew what percentage of Americans favor repeal… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2290 "2014-05-11T23:19:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Beats me. There is a GOP alternative There are plenty of brief lists of vague bullet points, but none that are actually bills yet. How much longer shall we wait? All we have from \*you \*is “repeal and reinstate”. 😃 > [@](#): > > I just don’t know if that alternative has enough support to pass a GOP congress. I guess we’ll find out in Jan. 2015.🙂 We’ll find out what’s in it after we pass it, huh? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2291 "2014-05-11T23:32:38Z")
Probably. May take a bit longer. Hard to be sure. Complicated. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2292 "2014-05-12T02:27:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Oh, I agree. Now if we only knew what percentage of Americans favor repeal… We do when the actual, real world choices, are presented. A majority favor repeal. For a large percentage of Americans, support for keeping ACA is contingent on unspecified changes. Presumably, these changes are not just minor tweaks, because otherwise they wouldn’t be dealbreakers. Not many switche from “oppose repeal” to “support repeal” because volunteer firefighters get an exemption. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2293 "2014-05-12T11:14:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We do when the actual, real world choices, are presented. A majority favor repeal. This is false. Cite a recent poll that shows the majority favor repeal. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2294 "2014-05-12T11:54:36Z")
There haven’t been any. But unless you have evidence that public opinion has changed despite being consistent for the last 3+years, those older polls are still valid. As you can see, support for repeal has been consistently above 50% since 2011: [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/repeal\_of\_health\_care\_law\_favoroppose-1947.html](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/repeal_of_health_care_law_favoroppose-1947.html) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2295 "2014-05-12T11:56:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There haven’t been any. But unless you have evidence that public opinion has changed despite being consistent for the last 3+years, those older polls are still valid. It hasn’t been consistent, and it certainly hasn’t consistently showed that a majority favor repeal. Your facts are wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Why do you say stuff that’s so obviously wrong? I’m not saying a majority love the ACA, or that it’s a very popular bill – but you’re just wrong in saying a majority favor repeal. > [@](#): > > As you can see, support for repeal has been consistently above 50% since 2011: That’s four very old polls, and not all of them show a majority favoring repeal. You are wrong. There have been much more recent polls, even if they haven’t asked the question in exactly the same way, but they do not jive (not even close!) with the assertion that a majority favor repeal. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2296 "2014-05-12T12:03:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why do you say stuff that’s so obviously wrong? I’m not saying a majority love the ACA, or that it’s a very popular bill – but you’re just wrong in saying a majority favor repeal. According to the average of polls, a majority does favor repeal. Last I checked, 52.3% constitutes a majority. It’s up to you to demonstrate that other polls of the health care law have showed statistically significant improvement in the law’s favor. Then we can extrapolate that out to the repeal/oppose repeal polls which for some reason the pollsters have stopped taking. > [@](#): > > That’s four very old polls, and not all of them show a majority favoring repeal. You are wrong. The majority do. A huge majority in fact. I saw only one poll where the “oppose repeal” side was ahead. And “very old”? All of the ones in the RCP average were in the last year. So again, unless you can show that related poll numbers for the health care law have improved, you have no evidence, not even a plausible hypothesis, that the repeal numbers have changed. > [@](#): > > There have been much more recent polls, even if they haven’t asked the question in exactly the same way, but they do not jive (not even close!) with the assertion that a majority favor repeal. The polls ask a very different question, which basically amounts to, “Do you favor repeal, do you oppose repeal, or would you oppose repeal if the bill fairy came and made the bill better somehow?” ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2297 "2014-05-12T12:04:12Z")
This isn’t even up for debate. You are spectacularly, unambiguously wrong: [CNN Poll: Should Obamacare be kept or repealed?](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/11/cnn-poll-should-obamacare-be-kept-or-repealed/) > [@](#): > > According to the poll, 61% want Congress to leave the Affordable Care Act alone (12%) or make some changes to the law in an attempt to make it work better (49%). > > Thirty-eight percent of those questioned say the law should be repealed and replaced with a completely different system (18%) or say the measure should be repealed, with Americans going back to the system in place before the law was implemented (20%). > > Two other surveys conducted earlier this year – Kaiser Family Foundation in April and National Public Radio in March – also indicated majority support for keeping and improving the law. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2298 "2014-05-12T12:05:21Z")
So, only 12% support the law as-is, which is what the Democrats support, vs. 38% who support the Republican position. 49% support the bill fairy. And this poll is good, in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2299 "2014-05-12T12:14:28Z")
Three times since 2011, Gallup actually took a shot at asking a slightly more specific question. Respondents could choose: a) Repeal b) Keep as is c) Change it by expanding the law d) Change it by scaling it back 52% wanted the law repealed or scaled back vs. 37% who wanted it kept as-is or expanded. > **[Majority of Americans Want Major Changes to Health Law](https://news.gallup.com/poll/166145/majority-americans-major-changes-health-law.aspx)** > > In the U.S., a majority of Americans want Congress to either repeal or scale back the 2010 healthcare law. Republicans and Democrats are more divided about what Congress should do than they were in October. See, once we get an inkling of exactly what kind of changes Americans want, we find out that they are the kind of changes Democrats would never support. Thus, my contention that counting “change it” as “keep it” is wishful thinking. But then again, most of you have been counting a portion of “disapprove” as “approve”, so I guess you guys will Baghdad Bob this thing to death no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2300 "2014-05-12T12:17:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > According to the average of polls, a majority does favor repeal. Last I checked, 52.3% constitutes a majority. It’s up to you to demonstrate that other polls of the health care law have showed statistically significant improvement in the law’s favor. Then we can extrapolate that out to the repeal/oppose repeal polls which for some reason the pollsters have stopped taking. Many other polls, much newer than the ones you cite, show that a majority do not in fact favor repeal. **You are factually wrong. Totally wrong here.** > [@](#): > > The majority do. A huge majority in fact. I saw only one poll where the “oppose repeal” side was ahead. Your cite had four polls. Only three of them showed a majority favoring a repeal. A plurality is not a majority. > [@](#): > > And “very old”? All of the ones in the RCP average were in the last year. Yes, that is very old. Things change in politics fast sometimes. > [@](#): > > So again, unless you can show that related poll numbers for the health care law have improved, you have no evidence, not even a plausible hypothesis, that the repeal numbers have changed. This has been shown, over and over again, including in that CNN poll from yesterday that was just cited. You are just totally and pathetically wrong here. Why cling to the wrongness? It’s so obviously wrong. > [@](#): > > The polls ask a very different question, which basically amounts to, “Do you favor repeal, do you oppose repeal, or would you oppose repeal if the bill fairy came and made the bill better somehow?” No, that’s not what is “basically” asked. You are wrong again. Nuance is a real thing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2301 "2014-05-12T12:18:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Three times since 2011, Gallup actually took a shot at asking a slightly more specific question. Respondents could choose: > > a) Repeal > b) Keep as is > c) Change it by expanding the law > d) Change it by scaling it back > > 52% wanted the law repealed or scaled back vs. 37% who wanted it kept as-is or expanded. > > [http://www.gallup.com/poll/166145/majority-americans-major-changes-health-law.aspx](http://www.gallup.com/poll/166145/majority-americans-major-changes-health-law.aspx) > > See, once we get an inkling of exactly what kind of changes Americans want, we find out that they are the kind of changes Democrats would never support. Thus, my contention that counting “change it” as “keep it” is wishful thinking. > > But then again, most of you have been counting a portion of “disapprove” as “approve”, so I guess you guys will Baghdad Bob this thing to death no matter what. Why are you citing these extremely old polls when we have much more recent polling? Do you think there’s a chance this is because the more recent polling is much more favorable to the ACA? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=114) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=116)