# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 117
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2322 "2014-05-12T13:48:11Z")
It proves nothing of the sort, since Democrats aren’t going to change the law in any meaningful way. So only 12% support the Democrats’ position on the law, vs 38% who support the Republican position. The remaining 49% could go either way depending on which changes they want and which party is willing to make those changes. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2323 "2014-05-12T13:53:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It proves nothing of the sort, since Democrats aren’t going to change the law in any meaningful way. Not with your party’s reflexive opposition preventing it, _even when it’s their own fucking proposal_, no. But that is not because of lack of desire, even though you’re desperately trying to explain it to yourself that way. > [@](#): > > So only 12% support the Democrats’ position on the law Risibly wrong, as has been patiently explained to you enough times by now. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2324 "2014-05-12T13:54:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It proves nothing of the sort, since Democrats aren’t going to change the law in any meaningful way. So only 12% support the Democrats’ position on the law, vs 38% who support the Republican position. The remaining 49% could go either way depending on which changes they want and which party is willing to make those changes. With a reasonable Republican party, Democrats would almost certainly agree to some changes. But the party is not reasonable at this time. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2325 "2014-05-12T13:58:39Z")
They’ve made a few small changes. But obviously Americans want much more than small tweaks. That’s the Democratic disconnect. The President keeps on talking about ‘tweaks’, while the Democrats who actually have to win their close races are talking about real reforms. Real reforms which may still not go far enough to win over Americans, but which Harry Reid still won’t bring up for a vote, and which the President would not sign in any case. The Democratic position, regardless of who you choose to blame for it, is to keep the law as-is. That’s what Republicans will hang around their necks in 2014 and 2016. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2326 "2014-05-12T13:59:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Risibly wrong, as has been patiently explained to you enough times by now. What major changes do the Democrats support? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2327 "2014-05-12T14:00:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Democratic position, regardless of who you choose to blame for it, is to keep the law as-is. That’s what Republicans will hang around their necks in 2014 and 2016. Yes, like a medal of honor. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2328 "2014-05-12T14:01:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What major changes do the Democrats support? Asks the guy who thinks any changes mean “repeal”. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2329 "2014-05-12T14:02:42Z")
When you demand changes, and you don’t get them, what comes next? Grin and bear it? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2330 "2014-05-12T14:05:10Z")
What part of “it’s over” do you … Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2331 "2014-05-12T14:08:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What major changes do the Democrats support? I’d support a true socialized system where all health facilities are government run, all health care staff are civil servants, and everybody gets whatever treatment they need, no questions asked. If Republicans supported that and passed it, I’d start posting as BobLibRep. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2332 "2014-05-12T14:15:40Z")
A phased-in expansion of Medicare eligibility, along with the necessary phased-in expansions of funding (primarily removing the cap and progressivizing the tax), would do it for me. Recall that reducing the minimum age to 55 was part of the Senate bill before Lieberman (R.-Aetna) got it killed. But in no case should we go back to the Before Times. “Repeal” per the \*\*adaher \*\*plan, which lacks the “replace” part that was always a lie (and maybe he’ll grasp that someday), would be just that, though. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2333 "2014-05-12T15:10:35Z")
So, where in this polling are those radical moonbats who want the ACA to expand further into socialized medicine? Does that make us part of the “repeal” set? ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2334 "2014-05-12T15:25:28Z")
I’ve said it before, but the idea of actually taking the ACA fight into the 2016 POTUS race - **six years** after it became the law - seems spectacularly stupid to me. And c’mon guys, by 2016 there will be 10-15 million people (if not more) who owe their insurance _directly_ to the ACA. Running on a platform of taking those benefits AWAY will be political suicide. It’s not happening. The ACA fight is over. The GOP lost. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2335 "2014-05-12T15:54:43Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > I’ve said it before, but the idea of actually taking the ACA fight into the 2016 POTUS race - **six years** after it became the law - seems spectacularly stupid to me. Yeah, but, remember, this is a party that has no other rallying cry THIS year than “Benghazi!” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2336 "2014-05-12T16:15:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yeah, the GOP is just feeling that pain from the popularity of ACA. Why, Democrats can’t embrace the law fast enough. Tru dat! [As Benen points out](http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/aca-dead-enders-find-themselves-alone), red-state Dems such as Mary Landrieu and Kay Hagan are embracing the ACA as a campaign issue. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2337 "2014-05-12T18:28:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So even though the question basically BEGS the respondent to oppose repeal, you accept it, even though any other version of the question produces results disastrous for ACA. > > Like I said, wishful thinking. > > Only 12% favor ACA as-is. That’s utterly pathetic. Those polls don’t make the law look like it’s getting more popular, it makes it look like things are getting WORSE. > > So, **since 88% demand changes or repeal** , enlighten us as to what those changes are, and whether there is any chance in hell the Democrats or the President will support those desired changes. If not, then the question is meaningless. > > Or as Jesse Jackson said on SNL, “the question is moot! The Democrats don’t support any major changes, so asking if you’d support the bill if major changes were made is meaningless.” :dubious: > [@Stacey King](#): > > I’ll always remember this as the night that Michael Jordan and I combined for 70 points. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2338 "2014-05-12T18:52:01Z")
Obama gambled, big time and downtown. So did the Republicans. The Pubbies gambled that they could rig the game, put as much pain up front as possible, put off any actual benefits so far into the future that they would win before that happened, declare it all a huge failure, and then we wouldn’t hear any of this socialized medicine crap for another twenty years. Obama gambled that he could ride that out long enough for the benefits to come online, and slowly build up credibility. It was a big risk, and he went for it. The main reason the Pubbies cooperated even to the extent that they did was their certainty it would fail. Main reason it didn’t is because the “system” we had was so totally fucked up that even this mongrelized hybrid monstrosity would demonstrate more efficiency, if it worked _at all_ it would work better. Frankly, I didn’t think he could do it. Second time I underestimated that man. One thing about being a pessimist, I love being wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2339 "2014-05-12T20:53:58Z")
The pubbies did not cooperate at all to any extent because they knew it wouldn’t fail. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2340 "2014-05-12T21:01:10Z")
Well, then 2014 should be a good election for Democrats. Enjoy it. But let’s be clear. The law isn’t going to undergo any major changes, probably ever. So you’d better learn to love ACA as it is today, because that’s pretty much what it will look like 100 years from now if it isn’t repealed. Single payer has never happened in a country that already had a multi-payer universal system. Single payer only happens when that’s what a country decides to build from scratch. No one’s going to say, “You know, I really love my insurance, but what I’d really love is Medicaid.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2341 "2014-05-12T21:47:28Z")
Know what else? No country that has single-payer, or even any other system of essentially universal coverage, would even consider going to the system we had before Obamacare. Anyone who suggested it would be dismissed as mad. But you’re going to keep trying anyway, aren’t you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=116) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=118)