# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 123
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2442 "2014-06-06T12:53:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There was also a 2010. Losing two of the last three elections happens for a reason. Losing the most recent one is a better predictor of the next one, isn’t it? Oh no, wait, it’s you … > [@](#): > > And virtually no one thinks the Democrats can actually win the next election, as in win a majority of the votes. You have it right from \*\*adaher \*\*himself, folks. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2443 "2014-06-06T14:28:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The Republicans have lost two of the last three elections. Stop confusing the poor guy with the facts, willya? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2444 "2014-06-07T04:08:37Z")
Three of the last four, actually.🙂 Although soon it will be two wins in the last five. But the sweet thing about our system is that you don’t have to win if your goal is just to stop the federal government from growing. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2445 "2014-06-07T04:49:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Three of the last four, actually.🙂 > > Although soon it will be two wins in the last five. But the sweet thing about our system is that you don’t have to win if your goal is just to stop the federal government from growing. Unless you want intelligent stewardship of the most powerful country in the world. Screaming “no” isn’t exactly inspired policy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2446 "2014-06-07T05:08:52Z")
Yet strangely, our system was built with tons of veto points. The founders envisioned “no” as the default position unless there was broad consensus that something needed to be changed. That’s because when the government says “yes”, it usually means you’re losing some of your liberty. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2447 "2014-06-07T06:56:22Z")
The President has delayed so much of the law that the CBO can’t even score it anymore: > **[CBO Quietly Drops Forecast That Obamacare Will Cut the Deficit](https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2014/06/05/CBO-Quietly-Drops-Forecast-Obamacare-Will-Cut-Deficit)** > > One of the Obama administration's major selling points in passing the Affordable Care Act in 2010 was a Congressional Budget Office forecast that the controversial legislation would reduce the deficit by $120 billion over the coming decade. But in... In April, the agency quietly signaled that it can no longer make that projection; that the law had been changed and delayed so much that there is no longer a credible way to estimate the long-term effects on the deficit of all elements of the program taken together. In a little noticed footnote to a report updating estimates of the effects of the insurance coverage provisions of the law, the agency headed by Douglas Elmendorf acknowledged that neither CBO nor the Joint Committee on Taxation could determine precisely how scores of provisions other than the insurance coverage would impact long term government spending. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2448 "2014-06-07T13:11:28Z")
Well,now, aren’t _you_ in an awkward spot, bitching about delaying something you oppose in the first place. Kinda like Woody Allen’s joke about two elderly Jewish ladies complaining about a Catskills resort hotel, one complains that the food isn’t good, the other complains that the portions are too small as well. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2449 "2014-06-07T13:13:28Z")
Nonsense. Yet another promise falling by the wayside. A lot of us predicted that the funding mechanisms would not come through due to lack of political will. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2450 "2014-06-07T13:31:05Z")
“Lack of political will”? Would that be anything like the guys rolling around on the floor, screaming at the top of their lungs and tearing their hair out in clumps? If so, definitely, there is a “lack of political will”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2451 "2014-06-08T03:43:16Z")
More like the President postponing the pain, always until after the next election. Now we also find out that the vast majority of people without health insurance will not be subject to the mandate because of all the exemptions. That was also part of the funding for the health care law. Looks like the public was right again. Most voters thought the bill would increase the deficit. Liberal analysts like Ezra Klein and Jonathon Cohn assured us that was false. They were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2452 "2014-06-08T11:57:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > More like the President postponing the pain, always until after the next election. Now we also find out that the vast majority of people without health insurance will not be subject to the mandate because of all the exemptions. > > That was also part of the funding for the health care law. Looks like the public was right again. Most voters thought the bill would increase the deficit. Liberal analysts like Ezra Klein and Jonathon Cohn assured us that was false. They were wrong. Most people think Republicans are in favor of reducing the deficit. [Looks like they were wrong.](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/04/29/republicans-pass-tax-breaks-but-dont-pay-for-them/) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2453 "2014-06-08T20:04:07Z")
Yet the deficit goes down, primarily because the Republicans always give the President $200 billion less than he asks for in his budget. And if the law does get scored by the CBO in the near future as increasing the deficit, the repeal position will be the more fiscally responsible position. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2454 "2014-06-08T22:30:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yet the deficit goes down, primarily because the Republicans always give the President $200 billion less than he asks for in his budget. > > And if the law does get scored by the CBO in the near future as increasing the deficit, the repeal position will be the more fiscally responsible position. Cite? **Fear Itself** provided a cite, and fair is fair. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2455 "2014-06-08T23:00:22Z")
> **[2011 United States federal budget](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_federal_budget)** > > The 2011 United States federal budget was the United States federal budget to fund government operations for the fiscal year 2011. The budget was the subject of a spending request by President Barack Obama. The actual appropriations for Fiscal Year 2011 had to be authorized by the full Congress before it could take effect, according to the U.S. budget process. > No budget was passed by the September 30 deadline, and the government was funded by a series of seven continuing resolutions continu... Requested by the President: 3.8 trillion President got: 3.6 trillion > **[2012 United States federal budget](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_federal_budget)** > > The 2012 United States federal budget was the budget to fund government operations for the fiscal year 2012, which lasted from October 1, 2011 through September 30, 2012. The original spending request was issued by President Barack Obama in February 2011. That April, the Republican-held House of Representatives announced a competing plan, The Path to Prosperity, emboldened by a major victory in the 2010 Congressional elections associated with the Tea Party movement. The budget plans were bot... Requested: 3.7 trillion Received: 3.5 trillion > **[2013 United States federal budget](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_United_States_federal_budget)** > > The 2013 United States federal budget is the budget to fund government operations for the fiscal year 2013, which began on October 1, 2012, and ended on September 30, 2013. The original spending request was issued by President Barack Obama in February 2012. > The Budget Control Act of 2011 mandates caps on discretionary spending, which under current law will be lowered beginning in January 2013 to remove $1.2 trillion of spending over the following ten years. In addition, several temporary tax ... Requested: 3.8 trillion Received: 3.45 trillion What’s so striking is that the President wants to increase spending every year, yet spending is going down. It’s as if he’s living in a different reality, where his previous budget requests were granted so he’s just calling for the next 3% increase. No, the baseline is $3.45 trillion now, and he needs to go off that spending level. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2456 "2014-06-09T02:36:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > [2011 United States federal budget - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_federal_budget) > > Requested by the President: 3.8 trillion > President got: 3.6 trillion > > [2012 United States federal budget - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_federal_budget) > > Requested: 3.7 trillion > Received: 3.5 trillion > > [2013 United States federal budget - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_United_States_federal_budget) > > Requested: 3.8 trillion > Received: 3.45 trillion > What’s so striking is that the President wants to increase spending every year, yet spending is going down. It’s as if he’s living in a different reality, where his previous budget requests were granted so he’s just calling for the next 3% increase. No, the baseline is $3.45 trillion now, and he needs to go off that spending level. Wiki cites - nice! But you’re telling only part of the story. There’s the question of revenue. In 2011 Congress cut the President’s $2.567T revenue request to $2.303T. If they had left the revenue proposal alone the deficit that year would have been $1.036T instead of $1.300T. The revenue cuts of $0.264T more than offset the spending cuts of $0.231T. In 2012 and 2013 the revenue cuts were less than the spending cuts, but 2013 was the year with the fiscal cliff - not exactly a normal or rational process. You also did not mention 2010: Revenues were cut $0.218T but expenditures were only cut $0.096T, leaving a deficit of $1.293T that would have been $1.171 under the proposed budget, and could have been $1.075T had only the spending cuts happened. So in 2 of the 4 years Congress cut revenue more than they cut spending, increasing the deficit over the proposed one. In the other two years they cut spending, but still cut revenue allowing the deficit to grow more than it could have. Not exactly the behavior of people for whom the deficit if the highest priority. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2457 "2014-06-09T02:55:55Z")
That’s one way of looking at it. Another is that the deficit was lower than what the President requested, and it could very well be because the President didn’t get the taxes he wanted. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2458 "2014-06-09T06:33:27Z")
That’s not how this works. You see, if you’ve got a hole in the ground, and you take another shovelful of dirt out, the hole gets bigger. Put a shovelful of dirt back in, hole gets smaller. Let us know if you have any trouble with this, we’re here to help. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2459 "2014-06-09T09:12:08Z")
Which is why we’ve been cutting spending. It’s working pretty well so far. Let’s see if we can get down to $3.3 trillion this year. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2460 "2014-06-09T11:04:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Which is why we’ve been cutting spending. It’s working pretty well so far. Let’s see if we can get down to $3.3 trillion this year. Cutting the budget spend doesn’t do any good deficit/debt-wise when you cut revenue as fast or faster than you cut spending. Is that really so hard to understand? Would you be happy if the President submitted a budget to Congress for $1T, but with revenue of $0? How or why is that better or worse than a budget of $4T with revenue of $3T? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2461 "2014-06-09T11:11:35Z")
Revenue is rising. Spending is falling. Which means the deficit is falling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=122) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=124)