# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 126
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2502 "2014-06-09T20:32:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > But hey - you care! That’s what’s important. And you don’t! No, friend, that’s not what’s important. You’ve had enough hints, now you can go figure it out yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2503 "2014-06-09T21:15:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Liberals will make a better world, and they’ll take every penny you have to make it happen. As opposed to conservatives who enact fiscal policy that simply does’t work. Also, the Clinton tax levels aren’t _taking every penny_. ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2504 "2014-06-09T21:35:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Liberals will make a better world, and they’ll take every penny you have to make it happen. > [@Terr](#): > > Sadly, you think that costs should not be a consideration at all with social programs. Who cares how much it costs, as long as you’re so caring about everyone. You know, I’m damned tired of hearing conservatives scream, “We can’t afford it!” when I see: Republicans approve wars in Irag and Afghanistan, costing [four to six trillion dollars](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/study-iraq-afghan-war-costs-to-top-4-trillion/2013/03/28/b82a5dce-97ed-11e2-814b-063623d80a60_story.html), then block a [24 billion dollar](http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/27/us-usa-veterans-congress-idUSBREA1Q26O20140227) VA bill. Romney proposed increasing the military budget by [two trillion dollars](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/10/22/romney-wants-to-increase-defense-spending-by-2-trillion-but-what-will-he-use-it-for/), but Republicans block Medicaid expansion. God forbid they spend any extra money to mend a person, but when it comes to maiming them, apparently the sky’s the limit! Who cares how much it costs, as long as you’re capable of killing everyone. Conservatives will destroy the world, and they’ll take every penny you have to make it happen. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2505 "2014-06-09T22:02:19Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > As opposed to conservatives who enact fiscal policy that simply does’t work. > > Also, the Clinton tax levels aren’t _taking every penny_. The Clinton tax levels don’t even begin to pay for all your ambitions. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2506 "2014-06-09T22:10:51Z")
> [@Cabbage](#): > > Romney proposed increasing the military budget by [two trillion dollars](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/10/22/romney-wants-to-increase-defense-spending-by-2-trillion-but-what-will-he-use-it-for/), but Republicans block Medicaid expansion. Pure dishonesty. From your article, Romney’s suggestion is $2T over 10 years. Using the same way of measurement, Obamacare’s Medicaid expansion is $4.5T over 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2507 "2014-06-09T22:18:16Z")
Not to mention those who want to increase military spending in the Republican base are just a faction of the party, albeit a powerful one. I can’t defend Republican politicians for wanting to increase spending or pass tax cuts without spending cuts. But I can defend my belief that cutting taxes and spending is sound economic policy. And I will support politicians of either party who favor reducing the size of government. Like Bill Clinton, who declared “The era of Big Government is over” and cut spending to 18% of GDP. Obama apparently was pretty peeved about that because he’s reversed nearly all of Clinton’s government-shrinking policies. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2508 "2014-06-09T22:25:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Clinton tax levels don’t even begin to pay for all your ambitions. Really? What are my ambitions? Or are you just saying something you know nothing about? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2509 "2014-06-09T22:26:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Not to mention those who want to increase military spending in the Republican base are just a faction of the party, albeit a powerful one. I can’t defend Republican politicians for wanting to increase spending or pass tax cuts without spending cuts. But I can defend my belief that cutting taxes and spending is sound economic policy. > > And I will support politicians of either party who favor reducing the size of government. Like Bill Clinton, who declared “The era of Big Government is over” and cut spending to 18% of GDP. Obama apparently was pretty peeved about that because he’s reversed nearly all of Clinton’s government-shrinking policies. Specifics? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2510 "2014-06-09T22:30:32Z")
Ah, yes, the Clinton tax levels … federal budget surpluses … the economy growing so quickly the Fed chairman had to warn of “irrational exuberance” … oh, wait, all that was _bad_? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2511 "2014-06-09T23:18:20Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Really? What are my ambitions? Or are you just saying something you know nothing about? The government currently spends a lot more than it takes in, under Clinton tax levels. Are you satisfied with the current federal commitments to various programs? If so, you still need to raise some more money. If you want the government to do even more things, then you need a LOT more money, and a plan for managing it all would be helpful, since the President has proven that the government is unmanageable by elected officials at its current size. I’ll be really interested in hearing about that plan. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2512 "2014-06-09T23:28:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The government currently spends a lot more than it takes in, under Clinton tax levels. I have no idea if this is factually correct or not. But based on your batting average, I’m betting you pulled this out of your ass as well. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2513 "2014-06-09T23:29:24Z")
You are unaware of the current deficit? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2514 "2014-06-09T23:30:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You are unaware of the current deficit? Really? You are unaware we no longer operate under Clinton tax rates? Really?? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2515 "2014-06-09T23:37:03Z")
Ah, so you favor raising middle class taxes to Clinton levels? Unfortunatley, you still fall a little short, so you need more money. ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2516 "2014-06-09T23:37:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Pure dishonesty. From your article, Romney’s suggestion is $2T over 10 years. Using the same way of measurement, Obamacare’s Medicaid expansion is $4.5T over 10 years. When the US is already spending more on the military than [the next ten countries combined](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/military-spending-cuts/u-s-military-spending-dwarfs-rest-world-n37461), why must we keep increasing the military budget at all? If you’re truly interested in cutting spending, the military is a prime candidate for consideration. However, I"m not going to hold my breath waiting for any GOP congressman to suggest this. I stand by my original point. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2517 "2014-06-09T23:48:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The government currently spends\*\* a lot more\*\* than it takes in, under Clinton tax levels. > [@adaher](#): > > Unfortunatley, you still fall\*\* a little short\*\*, so you need more money. So which is it, “a lot more” or " a bit short"? Or neither? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2518 "2014-06-09T23:52:09Z")
> [@Cabbage](#): > > When the US is already spending more on the military than [the next ten countries combined](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/military-spending-cuts/u-s-military-spending-dwarfs-rest-world-n37461), why must we keep increasing the military budget at all? If you’re truly interested in cutting spending, the military is a prime candidate for consideration. However, I"m not going to hold my breath waiting for any GOP congressman to suggest this. > > I stand by my original point. You were trying, by manipulating time scales, to contrast supposed huge sums spent on things you don’t like to supposed tiny amounts for things you do. That’s the dishonest part. If you thought your “original point” could stand on its own, you wouldn’t have twisted numbers to introduce it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2519 "2014-06-09T23:52:55Z")
> [@](#): > > So which is it, “a lot more” or " a bit short"? Or neither? The “a little short” is sarcasm. **adaher** is employing something similar to humor. ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2520 "2014-06-10T00:23:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You were trying, by manipulating time scales, to contrast supposed huge sums spent on things you don’t like to supposed tiny amounts for things you do. That’s the dishonest part. > > If you thought your “original point” could stand on its own, you wouldn’t have twisted numbers to introduce it. That was not my intent at all. In all candor, when I posted the original links, I didn’t even notice the time scales. That doesn’t make me “dishonest”. I will however, own up to “negligent/ignorant” in this case. My apologies. On that note, it’s telling to me that you did not address the 4-6 trillion cost of the wars versus the 24 billion VA funding. Is there a time scale issue there, as well? What I’m trying to do (and I strongly object to your misrepresentation of what I actually am trying to do) is point out a pattern of Republican hypocrisy when it comes to spending issues. While I may have made a poor analogy, I still stand by my original point, which is this: Again, if spending is truly a Conservative concern, why do I not see any GOP proposals to cut military spending? Not only do I not see proposed cuts, I instead see proposed increases. Why is that? I’m waiting for a real response here, not a nitpick. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2521 "2014-06-10T00:32:30Z")
Back to Virginia, it looks like McCauliffe was planning his own dirty tricks to get Medicaid expansion done. the GOP just outmaneuvered him: > **[Did Virginia GOP outmaneuver McAuliffe on Medicaid?](https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/208644-did-va-gop-outmaneuver-mcauliffe-on-medicaid/)** > > By persuading a Dem to resign, Republicans regain Senate control and can block expansion. In any case, McCauliffe’s only leverage was to cause a shutdown. Medicaid expansion wasn’t going to happen in any case. This little “trick” the Republicans pulled avoids a shutdown, which I’ve been told is a good thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=125) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=127)