# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 127
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2522 "2014-06-10T01:02:14Z")
And you think that’s a _good_ thing. The only objective is to think you’ve made the Democrats lose something, no matter the human toll. Is that it? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2523 "2014-06-10T01:15:05Z")
McCauliffe was willing to shut down the government. That’s crazy. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2524 "2014-06-10T01:17:47Z")
Depends on the reason, don’t it? What do you think McAuliffe (and please learn how to spell sometime; you’ll look less ignorant) wants to accomplish? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2525 "2014-06-10T01:48:14Z")
> [@Cabbage](#): > > On that note, it’s telling to me that you did not address the 4-6 trillion cost of the wars versus the 24 billion VA funding. Is there a time scale issue there, as well? Yes, of course. The 24 billion VA funding is yearly, I presume. The 4-5 Trillion cost is over what - 13 years? And it’s apples and oranges anyway. > [@](#): > > Again, if spending is truly a Conservative concern, why do I not see any GOP proposals to cut military spending? Not only do I not see proposed cuts, I instead see proposed increases. > > Why is that? I’m waiting for a real response here, not a nitpick. First of all, I am a Conservative, and I am all pro-cutting spending, including the military. Second, first you have to cut the military’s mission, then you cut the budget. And third, it was the Conservatives that set up the sequester - which cut military spending. Didn’t you notice? ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2526 "2014-06-10T02:47:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, of course. The 24 billion VA funding is yearly, I presume. The 4-5 Trillion cost is over what - 13 years? And it’s apples and oranges anyway. You say, “Of course,” then you say “I presume?” and you accuse _me_ of being dishonest? Anyway, you presume wrong, it’s over a [10 year period](http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-to-introduce-va-accountability-bill): > [@](#): > > Only yesterday, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) complained about ited the $21 billion, 10-year cost of the comprehensive bill. “If you think it’s too expensive to take care of our veterans then don’t send them to war,” Sanders said during the exchange with Rubio. > [@Terr](#): > > First of all, I am a Conservative, and I am all pro-cutting spending, including the military. Second, first you have to cut the military’s mission, then you cut the budget. And third, it was the Conservatives that set up the sequester - which cut military spending. Didn’t you notice? I’ll be impressed if you can find me any GOP congressman that will take responsibility for sequestration military cuts specifically ; all I hear from that side is that the cuts will ["jeopardize our national security.”](http://ourfuture.org/20131125/republicans-to-america-sequester-you). On the other hand, I did hear a Republican proposal to [Save Military From Sequestration By Cutting Social Security](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/03/military-sequestration_n_4377517.html) which, yet again, strengthens my original point. Don’t get lost in the details. I’m simply asking why, as a (strong) general rule, Republicans are all for cuts as long as the military is not on the cutting table. If you’re for cutting the military, as well, why are you even arguing against this point? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2527 "2014-06-10T03:12:20Z")
> [@Cabbage](#): > > I’ll be impressed if you can find me any GOP congressman that will take responsibility for sequestration military cuts specifically Why **specifically**? Sequestration cut military and other things, it was a package. You can’t just “specifically” cut out one part of the package. > [@](#): > > Don’t get lost in the details. I’m simply asking why, as a (strong) general rule, Republicans are all for cuts as long as the military is not on the cutting table. If you’re for cutting the military, as well, why are you even arguing against this point? Simple - Republicans (I am not one) think we need a very strong military. Mostly because they envision a large mission for it. I myself would prefer a smaller vision/mission, and thus a smaller budget. But you know what - since I know that Democrats are salivating to cut military budget, I would want those cuts in the military budget matched by cuts in entitlements. You, on the other hand, want the military cut but entitlements enlarged. And THAT is why you won’t see military cuts. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2528 "2014-06-10T03:33:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The “a little short” is sarcasm. **adaher** is employing something similar to humor. Well, he’s _trying_. ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2529 "2014-06-10T04:30:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Why **specifically**? Sequestration cut military and other things, it was a package. You can’t just “specifically” cut out one part of the package. Why specifically? Because I was asking why I do not see any GOP proposals to cut military spending. It’s disingenuous of you to use the sequestration as an example of the GOP cutting the military, because, as you also just said of the sequestration, “… it was a package. You can’t just ‘specifically’ cut out one part of the package.” In fact, members of the GOP tried to weasel out of that part of the sequestration by cutting Social Security, thus further proving my point. > [@Terr](#): > > Simple - Republicans (I am not one) think we need a very strong military. Mostly because they envision a large mission for it. I myself would prefer a smaller vision/mission, and thus a smaller budget. But you know what - since I know that Democrats are salivating to cut military budget, I would want those cuts in the military budget matched by cuts in entitlements. You, on the other hand, want the military cut but entitlements enlarged. And THAT is why you won’t see military cuts. That still doesn’t address the fact that our military budget is already HUGE. I see absolutely no justification to blindly continue increasing the budget of the military when, as mentioned before, it’s already greater than the other top 10 military budgets combined. I strongly believe many members of the GOP would increase military spending up to 70% of the budget [(as it was after WWI)](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/3157/was-federal-tax-revenue-spent-more-wisely-in-1955-than-now) and beyond if they could. You know, you used to hear Republicans say things like: > [@Eisenhower](#): > > Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2530 "2014-06-10T04:33:43Z")
> [@Cabbage](#): > > In fact, members of the GOP tried to weasel out of that part of the sequestration by cutting Social Security, thus further proving my point. _some_ members did. I don’t approve of that. I like the sequester, I just wish it was bigger. I bet you don’t. > [@](#): > > That still doesn’t address the fact that our military budget is already HUGE. I see absolutely no justification to blindly continue increasing the budget of the military when, as mentioned before, it’s already greater than the other top 10 military budgets combined. Your vision of the mission of the US military probably differs from Republicans’ vision. Surprised? ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2531 "2014-06-13T19:30:20Z")
I guess there’s been some conservative uproar - for the umpteenth time no doubt - over the recent announcement that the CBO will no longer score the ACA in its entirety. Well, [here’s the reason why.](http://www.vox.com/2014/6/13/5805004/the-real-reason-cbo-wont-re-score-obamacare) Basically, the CBO’s maneuver matches up entirely with historical precedent: the agency doesn’t score this kind of legislation after it has already been enacted. The nearest analogue to this is Medicare Part D, which hasn’t been fully scored since its original enactment. So, **adaher,** much ado about nothing. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2532 "2014-06-14T00:27:25Z")
Doesn’t matter to me. The public believes it will add to the deficit, and given that many aspects of ACA that raise money have been delayed or done away with, it’s looking like a pretty sure thing that it will in fact add to the deficit. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2533 "2014-06-14T01:11:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Doesn’t matter to me. The public believes it will add to the deficit, and given that many aspects of ACA that raise money have been delayed or done away with, it’s looking like a pretty sure thing that it will in fact add to the deficit. This is not a sure thing – not even close, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2534 "2014-06-14T01:18:55Z")
I also just want to point out that basically nobody in the entire country actually even cares about the deficit in the first place. Some people say they do, sure, but this abstract “deficit” is really just used as a metaphor to criticize the particular government action or service that they deem undesirable. So even if the ACA DOES add to the deficit - which, again, is far from a sure thing - it wouldn’t matter anyway except to people who already have institutional problems with the law itself. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2535 "2014-06-14T03:29:21Z")
It matters to the extent that Democrats will someday want to sell another entitlement as decreasing the deficit. So we go back and show that they lied about ACA, and the new entitlement goes down to crushing defeat. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2536 "2014-06-14T11:29:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It matters to the extent that Democrats will someday want to sell another entitlement as decreasing the deficit. So we go back and show that they lied about ACA, and the new entitlement goes down to crushing defeat. Except, of course, that there’s no good data that actually suggests the ACA increases the deficit. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2537 "2014-06-14T11:33:19Z")
Obviously, we’ll know more later. so in 20 years or so, the next time Democrats have control of all three branches and they want universal immortality, we can point to ACA’s deficit results to analyze their claims about cost. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2538 "2014-06-14T13:43:09Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > I also just want to point out that basically nobody in the entire country actually even cares about the deficit in the first place. [“Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter.”](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney) > [@](#): > > Some people say they do, sure, but this abstract “deficit” is really just used as a metaphor to criticize the particular government action or service that they deem undesirable. Not even that, from these people. It’s an excuse for opposing anything the majority party is for, on that basis alone, not merit or cost and benefit. > [@](#): > > So even if the ACA DOES add to the deficit - which, again, is far from a sure thing CBO scoring said the opposite. Maybe they’re just as skewed as anything else that tells \*\*adaher \*\*something he doesn’t want to hear. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2539 "2014-06-14T14:00:41Z")
CBO scoring is only if all spending cuts and taxes are in place. They aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2540 "2014-06-14T15:36:20Z")
Dopers may be amused to [hear the views on ACA by leading GOP intellectual Glen Beck](http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/archive/segment/glenn-beck-totally-freaks-out-about-obamacare-sign-ups/533da79478c90a60fb0000ad?cn=tbla). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2541 "2014-06-14T16:01:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > CBO scoring is only if all spending cuts and taxes are in place. They aren’t. True, we are \*not \*implementing Obamacare fast enough or expanding it far enough. Glad you agree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=126) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=128)