# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 135
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2682 "2014-07-17T11:46:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It is not, due to the cost and increased regulation on business and individuals. Every single health care program ever passed, small or large, has helped make things a little better. ACA is the most expensive since Medicare and Medicaid. Therefore, it should produce results comparable to Medicare and Medicaid. So far, it’s hard to make a case that it’s done more than Part D or SCHIP. So far it’s made significant progress on both its major goals – reducing the number of uninsured, and reducing the cost curve. And it’s only been in implementation recently. > [@](#): > > My main issue is how politicized the implementation of the law has been, which is why I think it’s more than fair to judge how the politics of it is affecting the President and his party. And that politicization has contributed to the unpopularity of the law. Your ‘main issue’ is your dislike of the president. Everything you post about the ACA is motivated by this. You look at every single article about the ACA with an attitude of “how can I explain this to make the president look bad?”. > [@](#): > > In what world would more people paying fines make the law more popular? In a world in which the increasing success of the ACA finally reaches a majority of Americans, even if some people are paying fines. I think it’s likely that in the long run, the ACA will be seen as a success, based mostly on the fact that _so far, it is a success!_ > [@](#): > > Sure, if you frame the question in such a way that makes major changes to it possible. If you just ask straight up(which no polling company has in awhile), then a majority favors repeal. In the real world, no changes are coming. The choice is actually between keeping it as it is and repealing it. In all recent polls on the subject, significant majorities oppose repeal. In the real world, repeal is not happening – so these polls are just as ‘realistic’ as the ‘straight up’ ones. > [@](#): > > You predict that insurers will continue to lose money? Huh? Insurers are profitting immensely. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2683 "2014-07-17T11:48:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Republican alternative will succeed on both measures too. What alternative? > [@](#): > > ANY health care program will succeed by that pitiful standard. LOL at your massive goalpost shifting… I remember when you swore that the ACA wouldn’t lower the number of uninsured, and it wouldn’t reduce the cost curve at all. And why is that a ‘pitiful standard’? If this were easy, it would have been done already. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2684 "2014-07-17T11:49:04Z")
The Republican alternative may very well do that. It may heal the sick, raise the dead, and make the little girls talk out of their heads. It may be a floor wax _and_ a dessert topping. It doesn’t have any of the burdens and limitations of programs that actually exist. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2685 "2014-07-17T12:45:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The \*\*Republican alternative \*\*will succeed on both measures too. ANY health care program will succeed by that pitiful standard. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/FopyRHHlt3M/hqdefault.jpg "Laugh harder") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M) Care to point me to that Republican alternative? I mean, it’s not like they haven’t had _5 years_ to propose it. I mean, you’d think maybe they could’ve spent some of the time they wasted on symbolic “repeal” votes that they knew would never go anywhere on explaining to the American people what their alternative was, right? The fact of the matter is that there is no alternative. Obamacare is as _bare-bones as you will **ever** get_. There is no possible alternative that’s less obtrusive and still provides basic medical care to everyone who wants it. The only thing that’s potentially less “big-government” is the public option route, which republicans _also_ torpedoed. There is no republican alternative Obamacare, because Obamacare _was_ the republican alternative. Never mind that every criticism you bring up (save for “mildly increased insurance rates” and “Obama broke an unrealistic promise”) is essentially a prediction with very little actual backing. You’re expecting that insurance companies are going to slash their rates in the expectation that the government will bail them out. Okay, why? You’re expecting that public opinion will drop further when the fines start rolling in. Okay, why does this matter? And why should we take your predictions seriously? Your track record is _abysmal_, and it’s easy to see why - you’ve got massive partisan blinkers on. And then there’s your stunning criticism that Obamacare isn’t as impactful as medicare or medicaid. Are you serious? Like, do you really think that’s a meaningful thing to say? That a law intentionally watered down by political opposition so far, in its first few months, doesn’t seem to have had the same positive impact of a law that’s 70 years old, far more powerful and wide-reaching, directly took from the other law’s importance (believe me, if it weren’t for medicare and medicaid, Obamacare would be _so_ much more important and affect _so_ many more people), has been modified several times to improve it, and is widely considered one of the most important social programs in the history of America? _Really?_ That’s your criticism of Obamacare? Oh, and for the record, that “pitiful standard”? If the republicans propose something that is less “big-government” that actually stands a hint of a chance of succeeding in that regards, I will go on webcam and _eat my shoes_. Not the cheap sneakers either, my leather Merrells. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2686 "2014-07-17T15:59:33Z")
Is this the part where \*\*adaher \*\*tells us again that the Republican plan is “repeal and reinstate”? I always get a kick out of that one. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2687 "2014-07-17T16:00:58Z")
It doesn’t matter what the Republican plan is. There is no conceivable health care bill that does not make things just a little bit better. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2688 "2014-07-17T16:06:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It doesn’t matter what the Republican plan is. There is no conceivable health care bill that does not make things just a little bit better. So you’re admitting that the ACA made things better. That’s progress! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2689 "2014-07-17T16:10:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It doesn’t matter what the Republican plan is. There is no conceivable health care bill that does not make things just a little bit better. Then why are they offering none at all? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2690 "2014-07-17T16:21:32Z")
Some Republicans have. The Burr-Coburn-Hatch bill. Although at this point it just seems more likely that Republicans will repeal the unpopular stuff and see if the law fails as a result. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2691 "2014-07-17T16:30:37Z")
So they \*are \*rooting for failure, despite your claims to the opposite. :dubious: Well, why not, that’s all they’ve got. You may note that there is, in fact, no “Republican bill” in process. The thing you cite is merely a couple of PowerPoint slides from a press conference, centered on pushing more of the costs onto consumers. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2692 "2014-07-17T16:33:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Although at this point it just seems more likely that Republicans will repeal the unpopular stuff and see if the law fails as a result. It is far more likely that the Republicans will do nothing. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2693 "2014-07-17T16:39:32Z")
If they win it all in 2016, they’ll do something. Half of them would get primaried if they didn’t. I don’t know if it will be full repeal, but there will definitely be some changes made. Mandate? Gone. Costs? Cut. Coverage requirements? Reduced. When they are through it will at the very least look like the ACTUAL Republican plan they had some years ago. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2694 "2014-07-17T16:41:07Z")
> [@](#): > > When they are through it will at the very least look like the ACTUAL Republican plan they had some years ago. It’s already been implemented. It’s called Obamacare. > [@](#): > > If they win it all in 2016, they’ll do something. You’re so \*cute \*when you do that! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2695 "2014-07-17T17:03:04Z")
There is no universe in which the GOP would have mandated all the coverage requirements the Democrats did, nor would they have spent as much money. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2696 "2014-07-17T17:08:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There is no universe in which the GOP would have mandated all the coverage requirements the Democrats did, nor would they have spent as much money. There are few universes in which today’s GOP would have passed _any_ health care bill. Today’s GOP has no interest in insuring the uninsured, nor in interfering with rising health care costs. The plight of the uninsured, or of people in danger of health-care bankruptcy, is just not important to the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2697 "2014-07-17T23:08:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Some Republicans have. The Burr-Coburn-Hatch bill. Case in point. The Burr-Coburn-Hatch bill is an unworkable mess. It does virtually nothing to help those with pre-existing conditions who do not already have health insurance, it has no way of keeping premiums low for those in need of comprehensive care, it uses _vouchers_ (not a great idea when Paul Ryan proposed it, still not a great idea), and has just about zero chance of fulfilling the “pitiful” standard you provided. That’s assuming you could even get Republicans on board with anything in the bill beyond “repeal Obamacare”. > [@adaher](#): > > Although at this point it just seems more likely that Republicans will repeal the unpopular stuff and see if the law fails as a result. _ **Case in point!** _ The “unpopular stuff” (the individual mandate) is not some tacked-on authoritarian extra, it’s _what’s necessary to avoid a death spiral_. It’s what you _need_ to have in order to ensure that rates don’t skyrocket as the healthy stop buying insurance! I know this, the republicans know this, and I’d be shocked if you’ve been around this forum for so long and _you_ didn’t already know this! It’s not “if”, it’s “when”. > [@adaher](#): > > If they win it all in 2016, they’ll do something. Half of them would get primaried if they didn’t. I don’t know if it will be full repeal, but there will definitely be some changes made. Mandate? Gone. Costs? Cut. Coverage requirements? Reduced. When they are through it will at the very least look like the ACTUAL Republican plan they had some years ago. Yeah, and it’ll either do nothing or not work or _both_. You cannot have community rating without the individual mandate. Full stop. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2698 "2014-07-18T22:46:28Z")
C’mon **adaher** , you know damn well that the only proposal that the GOP can resolutely stand behind is ACA repeal, even though - again - the ACA _is_ the Republican approach to health care reform. The bottom line is that expanding access to medical care is not now - nor has it ever been - even REMOTELY on the Republican radar. The GOP had full control of Congress & the presidency for several years under GWB, and yet they made no moves whatsoever towards carrying out health reform in the “Republican vision.” The things that the GOP cares about are tax cuts for the affluent & illegal invasions of other countries; expanding access to medical care within our own country isn’t even on the priorities list. And let’s get real here, when you say “win it all in 2016,” you’re describing a situation which is mathematically impossible: A strong House majority, AND a 60+ filibuster proof majority in the Senate. Barring some unforeseen calamity between now and 2016 which dooms the Dem coalition (think World War III & you’d get the idea), there’s just no way for the Pubs to secure such a win in a year of maximum Democratic turnout against all of the Tea Party asshats who won in 2010. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2699 "2014-07-21T23:22:42Z")
More confirmation that the ACA is working as well or better than predicted up to this point: [20 million covered so far](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/nejm-obamacare-progress-report). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2700 "2014-07-22T00:38:18Z")
As the article notes, many were previously insured. Whether the law is successful or not will depend on how happy they are with the new insurance they were forced to buy. 2014 and 2016 is really when we find out. If the Democrats survive until after 2016, the GOP will actually have to give up on repealing the law. If they win it all in 2016, that will be a pretty clear message from the electorate. Yeah, yeah, I know you’d like 2012 to have been the final referendum, but it wasn’t. The law had mostly not taken effect yet. So we’ll talk about this for two more elections. You should be happy, you’re confident the law is quite popular and a big winner for Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2701 "2014-07-22T13:33:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yeah, yeah, I know you’d like 2012 to have been the final referendum, but it wasn’t. Do you know what a “trend” is? > [@](#): > > The law had mostly not taken effect yet. And now it has, and it’s more popular than ever, now that people know from experience what it does and how thorough the lies your guys told really were. > [@](#): > > So we’ll talk about this for two more elections. Yes, we’ll have to, if your guys are determined to be a permanent minority. One thing you _won’t_ talk about is what your better proposal \*is \*- and you know why that’s the case, don’t you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=134) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=136)