# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 143
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2842 "2014-08-21T01:10:59Z")
Having the SCOTUS review the ACA for a third time is not only resolutely stupid on its face but also a blatantly _political_ gambit. Plain & simple, that’s all it would be. And I know that Roberts gives enough of a shit about the Court’s perception to not get dragged into this quagmire for a third damn time. And c’mon, again, let’s not kid ourselves about who’s doing this, what their motives are, or what they’re plainly seeking. At this point, I am completely finished giving **any** credence to conservative criticisms about the ACA. Every single one of them is completely baseless & illegitimate, and now that all of those bullshit doomsday predictions have been universally disproved, you see conservatives falling back to their prejudices and to what their central problem really is: they institutionally oppose universal health care - due to whatever baseless principles guide their thinking - and no amount of success that the ACA accrues will ever overcome their illogical, emotional, nonobjective, & biased approach to ACA analysis. Lest we forget, the ACA **is a Republican idea in the first place,** and no amount of historical revisionism will change that fact or that the GOP writ large - in its anti-Obama fervor - turned against its own gawddamned policy. I don’t know if the Court has a history of overturning laws because of drafting errors, nor do I understand why it is so damn difficult to just turn to the drafters of the law & ask them what it means. For fuck sake, this isn’t a situation where we’re trying to go back nearly three centuries & understand what the Framers were thinking when they wrote the Constitution; no, the ACA was drafted a mere handful of years ago and its writers have been forthright - repeatedly - in their statements of what the law means, what it’s intended to accomplish, & what they were thinking when it was written. But even going that far constitutes buying into the bullshit argument that Halbig proponents have perpetuated. They’ll tell you that they’re just trying to enforce the law as Congress _really_ intended it to be, but that’s total horse shit; no, they **hate** the law, and they’ve now resorted to a nonsensical debate just to try to legitimate their warped beliefs. Remember when conservatives used to argue AGAINST frivolous lawsuits as workarounds for the legislative process? Yet here we are. I bought into the philosophical questions once before when we lived through ACA Vs. SCOTUS: Round One, but now I realize the foolishness of even going that far back in 2012. The original philosophical debate was made in bad faith, and in hindsight it was a completely illegitimate argument. The same thing holds true here, and I no longer afford any credence or respect to this conservative nonsense. It’s all bullshit - all of it - and it has been made in bad faith to cover up an institutional contempt for universal coverage. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2843 "2014-08-21T01:56:45Z")
Let’s see if I understand this. So Congress passes a law saying that everyone in the top 1% will pay a 50% tax rate. But the law actually reads, “Everyone in the BOTTOM 1% pays a 50% tax rate.” How should the courts interpret such a law? And another thing. You’re being disingenous. The Medicaid expansion’s terms were ruled unconstitutional. That’s a pretty big deal, and it’s something conservatives were right about. So right, that it was a 7-2 decision. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2844 "2014-08-21T09:37:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, it’s puncturing the bubble here that makes me feel good about myself. I’ll let the media perform the public service part of it. They’ve gotten much better in the last year or two, haven’t they? All those A1 articles about the President’s disengagement and incompetence. Great journalism. Whatever you think you’re doing, you’re failing miserably. Your criticism is just very, very bad. There are legitimate things to criticize – you just never seem to find them. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2845 "2014-08-21T16:12:50Z")
[Here is a nice quote](http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/08/obamacare-and-the-rights-cleanliness-fetish.html?mid=twitter_dailyintelligencer) from a lovely conservative maniac - er, I mean _libertarian scholar_ - that perfectly illustrates the sentiments laid out in my previous post: > [@](#): > > This bastard has to be killed as a matter of political hygiene. I do not care how this is done, whether it’s dismembered, whether we drive a stake through its heart, whether we tar and feather it and drive it out of town, whether we strangle it. I don’t care who does it, whether it’s some court some place, or the United States Congress. Now, rational people would find Mr. Greve’s comments batshit fucking insane, but conservative-minded fellows like **adaher** & **terr** would deem them entirely reasonable. I rest my case. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2846 "2014-08-21T17:15:43Z")
Then you have a Democratic Congressmen who didn’t care about the Constitution when it came to health care. Hey, you don’t care, you are at greater risk of getting struck down. > **[Congressman: 'I Don’t Worry About the Constitution' on Health Care Overhaul](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/congressman-i-dont-worry-about-the-constitution-on-health-care-overhaul)** > > Confronted by an angry Tea Partier with a camera Thursday, an Illinois congressman said in front of several constituents at a town hall that he doesn't care whether the new health care law violates the Constitution, as some critics have claimed. Fortunately, that guy went down in the 2010 election. It was idiots like him that caused the bill to be such a mess. We know HE had no idea what was in it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2847 "2014-08-21T17:23:05Z")
Such a mess that it’s… helping millions get affordable health care. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2848 "2014-08-21T17:25:59Z")
And subject to numerous LEGITIMATE legal challenges. Shoulda read the bill, chumps. Might have helped to read the Constitution too. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2849 "2014-08-21T17:35:00Z")
Cut the crap **adaher.** Every single complaint ever thrown at the ACA from conservatives was made in bad faith based on baseless lies. They are **completely** illegitimate, in every sense of the word. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2850 "2014-08-21T23:54:35Z")
Talking about legal challenges, and conservatives won one and a half of them: the Medicaid expansion’s coercive nature was unconstitutional, as was Congress’ power to force people to buy health insurance under the commerce clause. THe mandate survived as a mere tax, which is actually a lot more significant than it seems, because it means that forever and always a person will be able to be in full compliance with the law just by paying the tax. Democrats will never actually be able to force people to buy insurance. Or anything else, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2851 "2014-08-22T00:28:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Talking about legal challenges, and conservatives won one and a half of them: the Medicaid expansion’s coercive nature was unconstitutional, as was Congress’ power to force people to buy health insurance under the commerce clause. THe mandate survived as a mere tax, which is actually a lot more significant than it seems, because it means that forever and always a person will be able to be in full compliance with the law just by paying the tax. Democrats will never actually be able to force people to buy insurance. Or anything else, for that matter. [Sitting bloody against a lamppost.]“Technically, I won that fight, because his shirt has my blood all over it, and it was a really nice, expensive shirt. And even though he’s walking away with my girlfriend snuggling up next to him, he doesn’t know that I bought her that car he’s getting into. Ha Ha!” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2852 "2014-08-22T03:15:19Z")
You’re sitting here with half the states not having expanded Medicaid. I wouldn’t exactly call that a victory for your side. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2853 "2014-08-22T08:33:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You’re sitting here with half the states not having expanded Medicaid. I wouldn’t exactly call that a victory for your side. The people you vote for intentionally hurting the poorest and weakest among them is the responsibility of the ACA how? The Dems brought food, and the Red Governors burned it rather than let their starving eat. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2854 "2014-08-22T10:26:16Z")
The Democrats’ intention was to coerce the states into doing so. That was blatantly unconstitutional. But we’ve already established that Democrats don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2855 "2014-08-22T11:02:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Democrats’ intention was to coerce the states into doing so. That was blatantly unconstitutional. But we’ve already established that Democrats don’t care. Every sentence in this is wrong. Hannity would be proud. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2856 "2014-08-22T11:18:08Z")
7-2 SCOTUS decision says I’m right. And in order to believe that it was ever constitutional to coerce states into expanding Medicaid, you’d have to be living in a serious bubble. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2857 "2014-08-22T11:26:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > 7-2 SCOTUS decision says I’m right. And in order to believe that it was ever constitutional to coerce states into expanding Medicaid, you’d have to be living in a serious bubble. If you want to be accurate, _use fucking accurate terminology_. You constantly say something false (like “the Democrats intention was to coerce states” and “that was blatantly constitutional”), and then follow up with something only very vaguely related, like a SC decision (hint: that’s not what the SC said). Issues are _fucking complex_. Quit trying to Hannity-ize them into five-year-old language. If you want to be accurate, you might just have to read and type more than a few sentences. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2858 "2014-08-22T11:27:23Z")
Further – what’s the point of the hack editorial statements like “But we’ve already established that Democrats don’t care.” Is there any purpose to these beyond trying to antagonize? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2859 "2014-08-22T11:30:54Z")
The Supreme Court ruled that Congress could not threaten states with loss of all Medicaid funds if they refused to expand Medicaid. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2860 "2014-08-22T11:58:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Supreme Court ruled that Congress could not threaten states with loss of all Medicaid funds if they refused to expand Medicaid. A little better. Some improvement here. Good job! Proud of you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2014, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2861 "2014-08-22T12:03:26Z")
For educational purposes, here is a fuller, more complete summation of the Supreme Court’s ruling on that case: “The Court’s decision on the constitutionality of the Medicaid expansion is divided and complicated. The bottom line is that: (1) Congress acted constitutionally in offering states funds to expand coverage to millions of new individuals; (2) So states can agree to expand coverage in exchange for those new funds; (3) If the state accepts the expansion funds, it must obey by the new rules and expand coverage; (4) but a state can refuse to participate in the expansion without losing all of its Medicaid funds; instead the state will have the option of continue the its current, unexpanded plan as is.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=142) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=144)