# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 148
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2942 "2014-09-16T22:13:06Z")
> [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > Partial implementation _IS_ a change, and on top of that the Dems have made changes to PPACA. We’ve discussed them in this very thread, sometime after Becky Sharp got to meet the King. Do you need ST-TOS Norman to coordinate for you? Partial implementation is an illegal change. Can a Republican President waive environmental regulations when the law doesn’t give him authority to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2943 "2014-09-19T15:38:17Z")
Over 90% of Obamacare [enrollees are paying premiums:](http://huff.to/1r2Mdao) > [@](#): > > At a hearing of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Administrator Marilyn Tavenner offered a partial answer at last. > > "As of Aug. 15 this year, we have 7.3 million Americans enrolled in health insurance marketplace coverage and these are individuals who paid their premiums. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2944 "2014-09-24T17:57:15Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The ACA was politically dumb only in that the proponents thought the American public was smart enough not to fall for the ridiculously outrageous lies that were being told to smear it. They should have pushed back against the Quittinator’s “death panel” bullshit on day one. Serious question: do you think ACA would now be the law of the land if Obama did not constantly trot out the lie that “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor., etc.”? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2945 "2014-09-24T18:09:54Z")
Yes. Serious question: Do you think that statement was a lie equal to the one your guys kept telling about death panels choosing whose grandmother won’t get treatment? Or the one that it means rationing health care, as if that weren’t already the case? Or the one about it adding to the deficit they created? Or the one about more people losing insurance than getting it? Or the one that not enough people will sign up for it that it will be paid for? Or the one that it means \*losing \*freedom? Take all the time you need. Consider too that, if that statement of Obama’s is all you have left to whine about, then you’ve lost, comprehensively, for all the wrong reasons too, that it’s working and helping people and getting more popular as more people see past your party’s lies, that it’s going to cost you dearly at the polls for generations to come, just like your opposition to Social Security and Medicare has, and that you \*deserve \* that fate. ---
**Author:** ![orangeapples](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@orangeapples](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orangeapples)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2946 "2014-09-24T18:15:19Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Serious question: do you think ACA would now be the law of the land if Obama did not constantly trot out the lie that “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor., etc.”? Y’know, that just keeps coming up, and it’s nonsense. I didn’t get to choose my health care provider **before** the ACA became the law of the land because my insurer would not pay, or would pay _significantly_ less on the slim chance it would pay, for anything not in their network. I never had the doctor I liked, or the facility I wanted, I had what and where ever the insurance company very clearly dictated I had to have. Any semblance of an actual choice was purely illusory. I can’t think that was unique to me and my situation. I mean, this was a thing, right? Surely this isn’t some divergent timeline and I’m the only one that remembers what once was. The ACA improved healthcare in this country, but there’s still a long way to go. Instead of trying to undo what’s been done, maybe we should focus our efforts on doing more. There’s still plenty of room for improvement. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2947 "2014-09-24T18:29:45Z")
> [@orangeapples](#): > > Y’know, that just keeps coming up, and it’s nonsense. Says you. I disagree. Let’s see what people who really look into this stuff think: [Politifact: Lie of The Year](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/12/12/politifact-awards-lie-of-the-year-to-obama/) [Washington Post: 4 Pinocchios](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan/) And you will note, neither of these organization can be considered right-leaning. I hope that helps you accept the reality of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2948 "2014-09-24T18:32:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yes. I think that’s absolutely incorrect. It was hard enough getting the votes WITH the lie being put forth. You need to go back and look at how close it was and how often this mendacious piece of reassurance got trotted out. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2949 "2014-09-24T18:34:29Z")
Who do you think might not have voted for it otherwise? How about a name or two? And do you have an answer for anything you’ve been asked? ---
**Author:** ![orangeapples](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@orangeapples](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orangeapples)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2950 "2014-09-24T19:43:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Says you. I disagree. Let’s see what people who really look into this stuff think: > > [Politifact: Lie of The Year](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/12/12/politifact-awards-lie-of-the-year-to-obama/) > > [Washington Post: 4 Pinocchios](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan/) > > And you will note, neither of these organization can be considered right-leaning. > > I hope that helps you accept the reality of the situation. I see what happened there. You thought I was suggesting the president didn’t lie. I’m flat out saying Who.Actually.Cares. We never had the don’t-fix-it-cause-it-ain’t-broke model of perfection the ACA’s detractors would like to historically revise into being. What’s the greater crime here, that it took such verbal wrangling to peddle the ACA? Or that before, during, and after it’s passage, opponents to the plan haven’t even been in the same room as the truth? Do I need to cite how there aren’t actually any [death panels](http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/over75.asp)? Wouldn’t it be awesome if the man had instead said, “In an unprecedented shift toward genuine consumer choice, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor, regardless of whether or not he’s agreed to accept your insurance company’s version of what they think you should or should not be treated for, and despite his unwillingness to ‘play ball’ to qualify for the network your insurance company insists you participate in or else, even if he views the standard of care he provides to you as more than a strictly regimented checklist of dotted t’s and crossed i’s”, etc. Not much of a soundbite, though, I s’pose. In other words, I was addressing what you had in quotes, not the truthfulness of the campaign to sell it. Perhaps you didn’t read the rest of my post, and got no further than “that’s nonsense”. I still think it’s nonsense, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2951 "2014-09-24T20:14:28Z")
Remember all those Blue dogs Democrats worked so hard to elect in 2006? Wonder whatever happened to them? Were they just meant to be used for that one vote and then discarded? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2952 "2014-09-25T00:43:46Z")
They had a lot to do with making ACA less than it could have been, for one thing. You might have noticed some discussion of the topic. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2953 "2014-09-25T00:58:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Remember all those Blue dogs Democrats worked so hard to elect in 2006? Wonder whatever happened to them? Were they just meant to be used for that one vote and then discarded? From your lips to the Ears… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2954 "2014-09-26T23:29:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > They had a lot to do with making ACA less than it could have been, for one thing. You might have noticed some discussion of the topic. There’s this little thing called persuasion. You might have heard about it. It’s what your side will need to do if it ever wants a governing liberal majority. And demographic change won’t save you from that necessity. Bigger majorities in New York City and LA don’t get you a Wyoming Senate seat or even that district in Western Virginia. Might want to try appealing to some country and small town folk a little better. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2955 "2014-09-27T00:36:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There’s this little thing called persuasion. You might have heard about it. It’s what your side will need to do if it ever wants a governing liberal majority. And demographic change won’t save you from that necessity. Bigger majorities in New York City and LA don’t get you a Wyoming Senate seat or even that district in Western Virginia. > > Might want to try appealing to some country and small town folk a little better. Thanks for the tip. [Seems to be working in Kansas.](http://kansasfirstnews.com/2014/09/23/orman-davis-lead-gop-rivals-in-latest-rasmussen-political-poll/) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2956 "2014-09-27T02:29:53Z")
I’d say the opposite of persuasion has gone on in Kansas. Rather, the governor has been historically bad. Kansans are so not ready to adopt liberalism that the only way the Democrats can beat Pat Roberts is with an independent who voted for Romney. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2957 "2014-09-27T02:38:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’d say the opposite of persuasion has gone on in Kansas. Rather, the governor has been historically bad. Kansans are so not ready to adopt liberalism that the only way the Democrats can beat Pat Roberts is with an independent who voted for Romney. Makes it harder for the GOP to take the Senate if their incumbents can’t hold the line. How many do you need if Roberts loses? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2958 "2014-09-27T04:14:06Z")
And that does what for liberals, having maybe 40 Senators of the liberal persuasion? That’s why you guys can’t obstruct anything when Republicans are in charge. You can’t even mount a proper filibuster because too many red state Democrats defect. Democrats’ electoral strategy reminds me of Bush’s war “strategy”. It’s all tactics, no grand strategy. Do whatever you have to do to win the key races, the key states, and then act surprised when you can’t get anything done. Plus damn, blue dogs as cannon fodder? I bet the new generation of blue dogs won’t trust the leadership ever again. I hope you like ACA, because it’s the last new entitlement you’ll see in your lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2959 "2014-09-27T12:48:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And that does what for liberals, having maybe 40 Senators of the liberal persuasion? That’s why you guys can’t obstruct anything when Republicans are in charge. You can’t even mount a proper filibuster because too many red state Democrats defect. > > Democrats’ electoral strategy reminds me of Bush’s war “strategy”. It’s all tactics, no grand strategy. Do whatever you have to do to win the key races, the key states, and then act surprised when you can’t get anything done. > > Plus damn, blue dogs as cannon fodder? I bet the new generation of blue dogs won’t trust the leadership ever again. I hope you like ACA, because it’s the last new entitlement you’ll see in your lifetime. Utter hackery nonsense. Mark Halperin would be proud. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2960 "2014-09-27T18:52:59Z")
Latinos are not going to be driven to vote Republican because of ACA, despite [the RNC’s fantasies](http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/policy/could-obamacare-problems-push-latinos-to-the-gop-20131116). Why not? After just the first sign-up cycle, and despite language issues, the number of uninsured Latinos is already down from 36% to 23%. However, it isn’t as good for [those in states with Fuck Obama governments](http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/press-releases/2014/sep/uninsured-rates-fell-among-latinos): > [@](#): > > In the 25 states and District of Columbia that had expanded Medicaid by the time of the survey, the uninsured rate for Latinos fell from 35 percent to 17 percent. In states not expanding Medicaid, the uninsured rate for Latinos remained largely unchanged at 33 percent. The report notes that 20 million Latinos live in these states, the majority in Texas and Florida. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/2961 "2014-09-27T18:54:12Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Makes it harder for the GOP to take the Senate if their incumbents can’t hold the line. How many do you need if Roberts loses? And if that represents a tide, how many more are going to be washed out to sea along with him? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=147) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=149)