# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 152
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3022 "2014-10-30T20:02:15Z")
As a conservative, I’d have supported ACA if there were a public insurance option, no individual mandate, fixed ceilings on procedural costs and penalties for patients who are able to pay their bills but don’t. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3023 "2014-10-30T20:09:51Z")
I can see versions of ACA I could have supported as well. The exchanges are a great idea. Medicaid expansion isn’t bad either, if it’s paid for for real and not with smoke and mirrors. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3024 "2014-10-30T20:52:34Z")
I love it when you use the word “never”, **adaher**. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3025 "2014-10-30T23:43:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We seem to all agree it could be repealed, we just disagree about what replaces it. When do we get to hear your party’s replacement plan? > [@](#): > > Either Americans will like it or they won’t Nope, still not getting it. > [@](#): > > We will likely build on ACA to get to UHC, but it will still involve the model of private health insurance. So when do the repeal votes stop? ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3026 "2014-10-31T03:11:41Z")
A couple of things about those recent poll numbers. First, though, for the umpteenth time, _ **no,** _ the ACA CANNOT still be repealed. That possibility effectively died when Obama was reelected in 2012, & it was reinforced even more when the coverage expansion actually began in October. Seriously, that’s it; there is no going back, & the ACA is not going to be _scaled back_ - whatever the fuck that even MEANS - & believing otherwise is a pipedream. Seriously, from where would the impetus for those actions even _arise?_ Does _American exceptionalism_ extend so far to the point that we as a country would step BACK from our _baby step_ toward UHC, the first country on Earth to do so? The answer isn’t just a resolute “no,” but a certifiable “fuck no.” It doesn’t make sense or jive with any semblance of reality. Now, the public’s reticence towards UHC is reflective of a few things. First & foremost, it reflects a growing skepticism towards the government’s ability to solve big problems in general, and certainly - in the ACA’s case, at least - the administration didn’t do itself any favors with the lousy rollout of [Healthcare.Gov](http://Healthcare.Gov). But even there, from an objective standpoint, the botched release of the website wasn’t an indictment of the government’s HC capacities writ large but rather an indication of its archaic approach to IT projects. When the website finally got (mostly) fixed last December, what happened? Signups for coverage surged & surpassed even the most optimistic expectations. Secondly - and this really cuts to the heart of the public’s uneasiness - you can’t just point out a lapse in support for UHC without acknowledging that \*anti-\*ACA messaging & advertisements have been downright ubiquitous for the past five years, and that that’s gone a helluva long way towards souring public opinion. Now, here I think a ton of fault lies with the administration itself for not selling & _defending_ its greatest achievement in the face of all of that misinformation, but a lot of the fault also lies with the Democrats who passed the ACA in the first place. Aside from a few firebrands like Liz Warren, Alan Grayson, & Bernie Sanders, the Democratic coalition in Congress is largely populated by a bunch of cowards who (again) haven’t stood up for the ACA or defended it from the GOP rhetoric. Taken together, that absence of an ACA firewall definitely contributed to the public angst, even as the law has already proven to be objectively successful. Still, all of that just certifies even further the degree to which Republicans are effective liars & spreaders of panic & fear. It’s not some kind of stupid indication that the GOP has magically somehow discovered how to do health care policy. No amount of historical revisionism - _again,_ the ACA IS THE REPUBLICAN PLAN - will change the fact that the GOP simply doesn’t give two shits about HC as an issue. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3027 "2014-10-31T03:14:22Z")
Mark warner and Mark Begich have proposed adding a “copper plan” to the exchange choices, which presumably would cover less than the bronze plan. I think it’s a good idea. Anyone have any objections? Warner’s plan also includes some other fixes. Love to hear comments on it: > **[Sen. Warner Proposes Targeted Improvements to Health Care Reform Law](https://www.warner.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/pressreleases?ContentRecord_id=6e59b6f6-330c-4386-8040-38ad40457694)** > > Sen. Warner today introduced legislation that will provide Virginia families with additional health coverage choices to best meet their financial and medical needs. > [@](#): > > ``` > The Expanded Consumer Choice Act, introduced by Sen. Warner and Sen. Mark Begich (D-AK), creates a new coverage option, the Copper Plan, to be offered to consumers along with the existing Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze health care plans. Copper Plans will provide a lower-cost, higher-deductible option for consumers, while also covering the essential health benefits and consumer protections required of all health care plans offered through the Affordable Care Act (ACA). Members of the Council for Affordable Health Coverage, a coalition of employer groups including the National Association of Manufacturers and the National Retail Federation, support the Copper Plan proposal. > > A second proposal introduced by Sen. Warner directs state insurance commissioners to work together to design an effective model that would allow insurers to offer coverage across state boundaries, increasing competition and choice for both consumers and employers. The legislation directs the National Association of Insurance Commissioners to identify any regulatory and administrative challenges while designing a more open and transparent system to maintain consumer protections while providing insurance products across state lines or within a specific region. > > A third proposal introduced by Sen. Warner today seeks to ease reporting requirements for employers. The legislation directs the Department of Health & Human Services and the Treasury Department to design a more workable and less burdensome system for employers to report the hours worked by their employees. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3028 "2014-11-02T16:25:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Mark warner and Mark Begich have proposed adding a “copper plan” to the exchange choices, which presumably would cover less than the bronze plan. I think it’s a good idea. Anyone have any objections? > > Warner’s plan also includes some other fixes. Love to hear comments on it: > > [http://www.warner.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/pressreleases?ContentRecord\_id=6e59b6f6-330c-4386-8040-38ad40457694](http://www.warner.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/pressreleases?ContentRecord_id=6e59b6f6-330c-4386-8040-38ad40457694) It totally sucks and would quickly increase the number of people that hate ACA when they get the piece of crap policies then actually have to use them. They won’t think “Well, I’m getting what I paid for.” they’ll think, “Stupid Obamacare is a waste, the insurance from it doesn’t do squat.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3029 "2014-11-02T22:18:37Z")
That’s what people think now with the high deductibles. The only plan comparable to an employer plan is a gold plan. All other plans involve much higher out of pocket costs. The only way to “solve” the problem you mention is to just have one type of plan: the gold plan. Which people will also hate, because of the high premiums. News flash: paying for insurance has never been something Americans have liked to do. Now they just do it and hate the government for it. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3030 "2014-11-03T03:08:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s what people think now with the high deductibles. The only plan comparable to an employer plan is a gold plan. All other plans involve much higher out of pocket costs. Cite? Have you analysed all of the plans in all of the states? I have a silver plan with a $500 deductible and $750 max out of pocket. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3031 "2014-11-03T04:52:41Z")
Given that a silver plan is supposed to cover only 70% of health expenses, that doesn’t sound right. The rule additionally outlines actuarial value levels in the individual and small group markets, which helps to distinguish health plans offering different levels of coverage. Beginning in 2014, plans that cover essential health benefits must cover a certain percentage of costs, known as actuarial value or “metal levels.” These levels are 60 percent for a bronze plan, 70 percent for a silver plan, 80 percent for a gold plan, and 90 percent for a platinum plan. [http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2013pres/02/20130220a.html](http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2013pres/02/20130220a.html) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3032 "2014-11-03T15:39:06Z")
Is that a hint that you now accept your guys aren’t even going to \*repeal \*it, much less come up with a non-Obama-named replacement? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3033 "2014-11-03T18:14:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s what people think now with the high deductibles. The only plan comparable to an employer plan is a gold plan. All other plans involve much higher out of pocket costs. > > The only way to “solve” the problem you mention is to just have one type of plan: the gold plan. Which people will also hate, because of the high premiums. News flash: paying for insurance has never been something Americans have liked to do. Now they just do it and hate the government for it. That is funny, I finally get to see a doctor and I’m glad I can pay for it. Of course, for \*\*adaher \*\*people that are passing through a bad economical situation are not real Americans, nor reasonable (in the fact that they also know that there is no such thing as free meal) nor human it seems. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3034 "2014-11-03T21:09:27Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > That is funny, I finally get to see a doctor and I’m glad I can pay for it. > > Of course, for \*\*adaher \*\*people that are passing through a bad economical situation are not real Americans, nor reasonable (in the fact that they also know that there is no such thing as free meal) nor human it seems. I have a Bronze plan. My annual premium is around $5,800 (I’m single, male, 58). My out-of-pocket limit is $6,250. So I’m in at about $12,000/year worst-case (my in-network deductible is $3,450, so somewhere north of $9,000 the plan starts paying part of it so the potential medical care costs the plan would cover start at something north of $12,000/year - but I’m not going to calculate it). My medical expenses run about $3,000/year - so I’m paying a little under $9,000/year. I’d much rather pay the $3,000/year. So, basically, a mortgage until I get to 65. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3035 "2014-11-03T21:48:57Z")
> [@MemoryLeak](#): > > IMy medical expenses run about $3,000/year - so I’m paying a little under $9,000/year. I’d much rather pay the $3,000/year. So go ahead. There’s a very small penalty that you likely won’t even have to actually pay to not take the plan. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3036 "2014-11-03T21:57:30Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > So go ahead. There’s a very small penalty that you likely won’t even have to actually pay to not take the plan. There is that, but what \*\*MemoryLeak \*\*mentions does not contradict what I told to **adaher** , the plans are also means tested, I can tell you that I would be unhappy if I was in those “dire straits” as he is, but not as much as how I would be with no insurance whatsoever and with only the freedom to die quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3037 "2014-11-03T22:05:03Z")
> [@MemoryLeak](#): > > I have a Bronze plan. My annual premium is around $5,800 (I’m single, male, 58). My out-of-pocket limit is $6,250. So I’m in at about $12,000/year worst-case (my in-network deductible is $3,450, so somewhere north of $9,000 the plan starts paying part of it so the potential medical care costs the plan would cover start at something north of $12,000/year - but I’m not going to calculate it). > > My medical expenses run about $3,000/year - so I’m paying a little under $9,000/year. I’d much rather pay the $3,000/year. > > So, basically, a mortgage until I get to 65. From that line of reasoning, the fact that I’ve never had my house catch fire, or had anyone have an accident on my property means that I shouldn’t bother paying for my fire and home owners insurance. It is a fact that most people who buy insurance pay more into it than they get out of it. That is the whole point of insurance the lucky 99% subsidize the unlucky 1%. If your lucky enough not to need in than good for you, your down $6,000 but at least you’ve got your health. If on the other hand if you find yourself with large cell lymphoma next week, $6,000 will cover about enough to get you diagnosed, but as far as the treatment goes, you got a couple of hundred grand lying around? ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3038 "2014-11-03T22:31:49Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > So go ahead. There’s a very small penalty that you likely won’t even have to actually pay to not take the plan. My penalty for 2014 would be about $1,700. In 2016, it would be around $4,500. In 2008, my premium was $5,300 (it also included a dependent) and my deductible was very low (I believe it was $500, but office visits were a straight co-pay of $20 or $30). In 2009 my premium was $4,700. In 2010 my premium was $4,400. In 2011 my premium was $5,500. In 2012 my premium was $5,800. In 2013 my premium was $6,500. My deductibles were low and I paid a nominal fee for seeing my doctor. It included dental and vision. For all practical purposes, in the past my exposure was my premium. Now my exposure has doubled and, unless my chronic condition magically disappears, my ongoing costs will be almost as much as the worst case scenario forever. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3039 "2014-11-03T23:08:49Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > From that line of reasoning, the fact that I’ve never had my house catch fire, or had anyone have an accident on my property means that I shouldn’t bother paying for my fire and home owners insurance. It is a fact that most people who buy insurance pay more into it than they get out of it. That is the whole point of insurance the lucky 99% subsidize the unlucky 1%. If your lucky enough not to need in than good for you, your down $6,000 but at least you’ve got your health. If on the other hand if you find yourself with large cell lymphoma next week, $6,000 will cover about enough to get you diagnosed, but as far as the treatment goes, you got a couple of hundred grand lying around? Wonderful analogy. What property insurance do you know of that includes a home inspector that will come by every year and then will cover the maintenance costs once they exceed some threshold? Or covers the cost of adding a shed just because you want one? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3040 "2014-11-03T23:23:18Z")
Exactly. ACA doesn’t mandate insurance. It mandates comprehensive coverage. There’s a big difference. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3041 "2014-11-04T00:13:11Z")
> [@MemoryLeak](#): > > Wonderful analogy. What property insurance do you know of that includes a home inspector that will come by every year and then will cover the maintenance costs once they exceed some threshold? Or covers the cost of adding a shed just because you want one? Help me out here. Is the shed in your analogy getting a needed medical procedure? Because that’s not very accurate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=151) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=153)