# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 169
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3362 "2015-02-23T03:53:12Z")
> [@](#): > > it has more than enough $$$ to make sure that all of its citizens have [Del]access to[/Del] health care. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > All citizens have access to health care. Illegal aliens do also. > > So seriously, cut the crap. Unfortunate choice of words, so I fixed it. ‘Access to’ is not the same as health care and I am sure you know that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3363 "2015-02-23T03:54:42Z")
I’m sure the countries with UHC will be happy they have it when they are in concentration camps, just like the French were so grateful for their social state while under German occupation. Why, Leon Blum, who was in a concentration camp, was thanked by his fellow inmates for making it so they would get paid for overtime! UHC is affordable because they outsource their defense to us. And even then, they can only provide a basic level of care. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3364 "2015-02-23T05:06:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m sure the countries with UHC will be happy they have it when they are in concentration camps, just like the French were so grateful for their social state while under German occupation. Why, Leon Blum, who was in a concentration camp, was thanked by his fellow inmates for making it so they would get paid for overtime! > > UHC is affordable because they outsource their defense to us. And even then, they can only provide a basic level of care. The first paragraph is just goofy mush. As for the second, it’s not much better. You are wrong twice. UHC costs less than what we do. So saying that they can afford it because we pick up their defense is just nonsense. We can afford it because it costs less than what we pay now. As if that weren’t enough you’re wrong again about only having a “basic” care. Other first world countries pay less and have better outcomes than we do. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3365 "2015-02-23T05:07:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m sure the countries with UHC will be happy they have it when they are in concentration camps, just like the French were so grateful for their social state while under German occupation. Why, Leon Blum, who was in a concentration camp, was thanked by his fellow inmates for making it so they would get paid for overtime! > > UHC is affordable because they outsource their defense to us. And even then, they can only provide a basic level of care. I’m used to your…interesting…take on reality, and I’ve read this a couple of times. But I suspect I speak for many of us when I say, “huh?” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3366 "2015-02-23T06:14:02Z")
Well, if the threat of every being invaded and occupied again is past, I guess there’s nothing to worry about. The Eastern Europeans will be gratified, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3367 "2015-02-23T08:23:27Z")
So, we can have universal health care if everybody joins the Army? Or is that crazier than what you are actually saying? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3368 "2015-02-23T10:49:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > UHC is affordable because they outsource their defense to us. And even then, they can only provide a basic level of care. Apparently **adaher** thinks the extra $2 trillion spent annually on health care by U.S., compared with per capita spending in the rational developed democracies, is for our soldiers injured defending Europe from Gog and Magog. Maybe **adaher** isn’t from around here and is unaware veterans are covered by V.A. with spending much more efficient than the U.S. norm. … Or maybe he gets his information from _The Onion_. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3369 "2015-02-23T11:46:52Z")
Yes, we’ve seen how those efficiencies in the VA are achieved. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3370 "2015-02-23T13:59:23Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > … Or maybe he gets his information from _The Onion_. I’m convinced it’s Mallard Fillmore. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3371 "2015-02-23T14:59:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yes, we’ve seen how those efficiencies in the VA are achieved. The ones your guy Bush warned Obama he’d be inheriting? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3372 "2015-02-23T19:10:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, if the threat of every being invaded and occupied again is past, I guess there’s nothing to worry about. The Eastern Europeans will be gratified, I’m sure. Again, your point isn’t coherent. Even if we are carrying Europe’s defense burden, that doesn’t mean that we can’t afford UHC. Let me break it down so you can follow: _UHC is cheaper than not having UHC_. Every other country with UHC pays much less than we do. So if our paying a lot for defense has nothing to do with us not being able to afford UHC. UHC would cost less than we’re paying now. We have the ACA, but it’s much weaker than it needs to be. The idea that going back to the system we had before is a good goal is utter drivel. Never mind that the GOP “version” is a phantom fart in a maelstrom. The fact that you’re so confused on this issue explains why you support the GOP’s position on it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3373 "2015-02-23T22:00:53Z")
UHC is cheaper only if public spending displaces private spending. Since Americans aren’t about to give up spending lots of money on health care and pay taxes on top of that, we can’t afford UHC. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3374 "2015-02-23T23:59:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > UHC is cheaper only if public spending displaces private spending. Since Americans aren’t about to give up spending lots of money on health care and pay taxes on top of that, we can’t afford UHC. The most Obamacare like system is seen in Switzerland, and yes, they can afford to cover all their citizens. > **[Health Insurance: Switzerland Has Its Own Kind of Obamacare -- and Loves It](https://nation.time.com/2012/08/16/health-insurance-switzerland-has-its-own-kind-of-obamacare-and-loves-it/)** > > The country requires everyone to purchase health insurance but it appears to work efficiently while keeping costs under control > [@](#): > > Switzerland Has Its Own Kind of Obamacare — and Loves It > > The country requires everyone to purchase private health insurance, a system that seems to work efficiently while keeping costs under control. > [@](#): > > For many Americans, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which makes health insurance mandatory, is a bitter pill to swallow. But after the Supreme Court upheld what is now popularly called ‘Obamacare‘ on June 28, Switzerland’s media greeted the decision as “a victory for common sense.” > > Why should Americans listen to the Swiss? Because Switzerland’s healthcare model successfully delivers much of what the U.S is trying to achieve: universal coverage through mandatory private insurance. Unlike most European countries, the Swiss don’t have socialized medicine, though the government regulates the insurance industry and defines what health services must be offered — a generous package that includes doctor’s visits, hospital stays, medications, physical therapy, physician-ordered rehabilitation, and in-home nursing care. Under this law, which went into effect in 1996 to provide equal access to healthcare, everyone has to purchase a plan from one of 92 insurers. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3375 "2015-03-02T16:25:55Z")
On Wednesday, the Supreme Court is set to hear Obamacare Round 3 in _King v. Burwell._ This case, which was dismissed out of hand altogether a little over a year ago by a _Republican_ judge, should have never gone to the Court in the first place, yet here we are. It is based on nothing more than [categorically false](http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/03/02/the-supreme-court-hears-an-obamacare-fairytale/) historical revisionism & Fox News soundbites, and, if successful, would tear health insurance away from _at least_ 9 million people (as well as 5 million KIDS); more than that, however - & I’ve been harping on this for months - a ruling against the government would DESTROY the institutional authority and legitimacy of SCOTUS. I know Republicans are giddy about potentially taking health insurance away from so many Americans, but they’ll also have to contend with the fact that their beloved SCOTUS will become a certifiable joke to the rest of the world. That problem will be a generations-long dilemma for them, & it’ll dwarf the remaining two years of Obama’s presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3376 "2015-03-02T16:40:31Z")
I think conservatives have once again talked themselves into believing something is going to happen (SCOTUS gutting Obamacare), and there is going to be incredible shock and gnashing of teeth when it doesn’t turn out the way they earnestly believe it would. ![The most devastating day.](https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md5l9xxfYC1rkd8gso1_1280.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3377 "2015-03-02T17:40:19Z")
Not withstanding **2ManyTacos** hyperbole on the matter, yes the SCOTUS hearing in _King v. Burwell_ is scheduled for this week. The court will likely post an audio recording of the oral arguments on its website later the same day. One non-partisan note. The hearing is scheduled for one hour. There are no other cases set for hearing that day. [SCOTUS Blog](http://www.scotusblog.com/2015/03/argument-preview-now-the-third-leg-of-the-health-care-stool/), in a piece by Lyle Denniston, says that this may allow the hearing to run long, should the court so wish. Expect much gnashing of teeth in the press until the ruling is handed down. Each side will pontificate on _the end of the world as we know it that is sure to befall us all_ if the court rules the wrong way. If it goes down to the wire then [expect the ruling in late June or early July](http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/11/court-to-rule-on-health-care-subsidies/) – nearly four more months of this glurge. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3378 "2015-03-02T20:47:34Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > a ruling against the government would DESTROY the institutional authority and legitimacy of SCOTUS. Kind of like saying if Sarah Palin endorsed Ted Cruz, it would destroy her reputation for keen political insight. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3379 "2015-03-04T15:35:16Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Not withstanding **2ManyTacos** hyperbole on the matter, yes the SCOTUS hearing in _King v. Burwell_ is scheduled for this week. **The court will likely post an audio recording of the oral arguments on its website later the same day.** … Time to eat my words on this point. The court has posted same day audio in the past, but according to a report by Tony Mauro in the Legal Times, apparently the court will not do so in this case. The report is referenced in the [SCOTUSblog Wednesday roundup](http://www.scotusblog.com/2015/03/wednesday-round-up-263/) by Amy Howe, but a subscription is required to the Legal Times to read the report. We’ll have to wait to hear the justice’s questioning ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3380 "2015-03-04T15:58:39Z")
More info. Apparently the audio will be made available on Friday, according to SCOTUSblog. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3381 "2015-03-04T16:10:57Z")
They’re taking an extra day to edit out the “You gotta be shitting us, right?” questions from the non-activist justices, apparently. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=168) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=170)