# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 179
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3562 "2015-06-27T02:30:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > ACA exists, yet it isn’t getting any more popular. The Democrats have had every opportunity to make their case on ACA. THe public just believes the Republicans. You sound like a sore loser. No, I actually won. 😃 You’re the guy sitting in a pile of shit commenting on how sweet the roses smell. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3563 "2015-06-27T02:41:42Z")
ACA exists. And the Republicans dominate everything but the Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3564 "2015-06-27T02:43:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > ACA exists. And the Republicans dominate everything but the Presidency. Not the Supreme Court 🙂 And any “domination” of the Senate could be very short lived. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3565 "2015-06-27T03:26:51Z")
As Josh Marshall has pointed out, despite the decisions, John Roberts has moved jurisprudence in a much more rightward direction: [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-mick-jagger-reality-of-justice-john-roberts](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-mick-jagger-reality-of-justice-john-roberts) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3566 "2015-06-27T03:30:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As Josh Marshall has pointed out, despite the decisions, John Roberts has moved jurisprudence in a much more rightward direction: > > [The Mick Jagger Reality of Justice John Roberts - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-mick-jagger-reality-of-justice-john-roberts) Whatever direction he’s moving it, it’s not towards the current Republican party’s ideals (not that it’s moving towards the Democratic party’s ideals either). But then, the current Republican party is more crazy than conservative, so this isn’t particularly surprising. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3567 "2015-06-27T03:40:54Z")
He’s not supposed to do that. The Supreme Court is supposed to be apolitical. What he is doing is defining the limits to the state’s regulatory reach that the New Deal court left an open question. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3568 "2015-06-27T04:05:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > **adaher** did not post about re-taking the senate. His exact post was “You won’t see more Democrats in Congress than you saw in 2008 for the rest of your lifetime”. Which means 60 senators and a majority in the House. And if the Republicans lose just a few seats in the House and a lot of seats in the Senate, we may well see “more Democrats in Congress” than in 2008. Republicans won 57% of House districts while receiving on 52% of House votes in 2014, but the votes were funneled into a number of specific Republican victories due to the mapping of district lines. In 2012, Republicans took the House with only 48% of the votes. Shifts in demographics between decennial censuses could wipe out a number of Republican seats. His claim was hardly the sort of silliness we saw regarding the polls when running up to the 2012 Presidential election, but it was still a broad claim of undefendable exaggeration considering that it purports to depict a future that may extend thirty to fifty years for many posters in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3569 "2015-06-27T04:12:50Z")
the Senate goes by states, and demographic changes are not affecting states equally. Nor is it resulting in Democratic victories even where demographic change has occurred, such as in Texas. Getting to 30 blue states is going to take longer than any of us will be alive. I suppose you could wait for Republicans to win everything again and screw up so badly that Democrats get a temporary 2008-scale win. Be a shame to just squander it through on doing health care again. But whatever floats your boat. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3570 "2015-06-27T05:19:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > the Senate goes by states, and demographic changes are not affecting states equally. Nor is it resulting in Democratic victories even where demographic change has occurred, such as in Texas. > > Getting to 30 blue states is going to take longer than any of us will be alive. I suppose you could wait for Republicans to win everything again and screw up so badly that Democrats get a temporary 2008-scale win. Be a shame to just squander it through on doing health care again. But whatever floats your boat. Now, you are just rambling. You are not so much moving the goalposts as taking your football and moving to a different basketball court. I made no claim about “30 blue states.” The Republicans have already shown that a state can be one “color” and still send more members of the other “color” to Congress. If you are happy with your prediction, I am happy for you. I am sure that you will get the same thrill the next time the President Romney addresses the joint session of Congress. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3571 "2015-06-27T05:55:54Z")
Maybe this will be easier to understand: Even with 60 votes, they couldn’t even get a public option, much less a single payer plan. So figure out how many non-conservative Dems you’d need and then look at the electoral map, even in 2050, and realize that you’ll never get single payer. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3572 "2015-06-27T06:22:56Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Ummm, _no._ They are very different programs. > > Medicare is a strictly Federal program, and it works the same no matter where in the U.S. you live. > > Medicaid is a Federal/state program. The Feds provide most of the money (but not all, IIRC), but the states actually run it, and have a fair amount of latitude on how they do so. So Medicaid in Virginia isn’t going to be the same as Medicaid in Kansas, and neither are the same as Medicare. Ah, so you want single payer through the federal government? Not even Canada and Britain do that. That’s pretty radical. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3573 "2015-06-27T06:35:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Maybe this will be easier to understand: Even with 60 votes, they couldn’t even get a public option, much less a single payer plan. So figure out how many non-conservative Dems you’d need and then look at the electoral map, even in 2050, and realize that you’ll never get single payer. The goofiness of this argument is amazing. Singer payer / shitty American system isn’t a right / left issue. It’s a factual issue that there is very strong evidence for. The right has made it a test of loyalty, but it doesn’t have to be that way. If the right’s leadership ever becomes intelligent and honest again, they’d jump at the chance for single payer, or some similar system. Because it’s superior. Conservatives should want to save money. And paying extra for worse outcomes isn’t conservative, it’s profligate beyond all reason. It’s only the modern delusional stupidity of GOP politics that makes them hate it so. If the GOP becomes a big tent party again, with moderate, sensible members alongside the clucking snake-handlers that currently run the show, there could easily be enough support for single payer. In a tick more than a decade we’ve gone from DOMA to universal gay marriage. Saying that you find it impossible that the GOP will contain fact-driven people interested in the best outcomes in two or more decades, shows you just lack imagination. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3574 "2015-06-27T06:47:37Z")
First you should demonstrate that single payer UHC is superior to multi payer UHC. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3575 "2015-06-27T07:03:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > First you should demonstrate that single payer UHC is superior to multi payer UHC. Why? The ACA is superior to what came before, and the GOP prefers _what came before_. From that I know that the GOP Base can choose things regardless of their relative worth. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3576 "2015-06-27T07:06:15Z")
Whether it is superior remains to be seen. More people are covered, that’s a plus. However, we won’t know if it’s actually an improvement until we stop being last among Western nations in many health outcome metrics. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3577 "2015-06-27T07:16:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Whether it is superior remains to be seen. More people are covered, that’s a plus. However, we won’t know if it’s actually an improvement until we stop being last among Western nations in many health outcome metrics. More people covered while decreasing the deficit seems like a pretty good definition of _superior_. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3578 "2015-06-27T07:22:26Z")
More people covered but a lot of those who were covered having less coverage is not necessarily superior. I mean, it probably is, but I’m still upset about the fact that my sister cannot afford to go to the doctor when she could before. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3579 "2015-06-27T07:42:02Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > More people covered but a lot of those who were covered having less coverage is not necessarily superior. I mean, it probably is, but I’m still upset about the fact that my sister cannot afford to go to the doctor when she could before. The trouble with that sort of anecdote, is that there are endless variables. For instance, her employer could have petulantly cancelled insurance because… tyranny. Or her previous coverage might have had cheaper co-pays but had a lifetime cap of 300k. Without the specifics it’s hard to say. And I don’t doubt that some people had negative outcomes, but anything whatsoever that changes will impact some people worse than others. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3580 "2015-06-27T11:09:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Ah, so you want single payer through the federal government? Not even Canada and Britain do that. That’s pretty radical. I wasn’t saying anything - just correcting your claim that Medicare and Medicaid are essentially the same program. They’re not. But you are saying that single payer through the Federal government is pretty radical. Funny, most Americans would disagree that Medicare is a radical program. But it’s single-payer, through the Federal government, for the over-65 crowd. While I’m posting, I’ll note that you still haven’t explained why going from Obamacare to single-payer in, say, 20 years would be a heavier lift than getting Obamacare passed in the first place. By comparison, I’ll note that the heavy lift with Social Security was getting it passed in the first place. It’s been expanded and improved a number of times since, and none of those instances were the big political deal that getting it established in the first place was. The GOP will undoubtedly continue to repeal Obamacare for awhile, but eventually that desire should change from a continual to an occasional focus, as it has with efforts to mangle Medicare and Social Security. (That might take a decade or two, but it can’t be front-burner with them forever.) Once it does, legislation to make Obamacare work better will become possible. (Again, it’ll be awhile, since we’re still at a point where legislation to fix drafting errors isn’t possible.) And eventually that’ll include a move to single-payer. Unless the GOP Ahabs remain obsessed with the Black Whale of Obamacare for the next 60 years, of course. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3581 "2015-06-27T12:26:57Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > \ There were 58 Democratic Senators and two Independents who voted for the PPACA. The bill passed the Senate 60-39. The earlier cloture vote was also 60-39, with the same 58+2 voting for it. > \ Close enough. There were 60 Senators who were caucusing with the Democratic Party, two (Sanders and Lieberman) of which were independents. Of those two, Lieberman had been a Dem throughout his political career until losing his race for renomination for his Senate seat to Ned Lamont forced him to run as an independent. And Sanders is basically a liberal Democrat, and IIRC he’s offically becoming a Dem in order to be eligible to be on primary ballots as he runs for the Democratic nomination for President. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=178) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=180)