# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 184
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3662 "2015-10-15T12:18:07Z")
I notice you said that rich people can pay as much as they want for elective care. What about basic care? Are they allowed to jump the queue, see a private doctor or go to a private hospital? Depends on the country. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3663 "2015-10-15T12:20:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I notice you said that rich people can pay as much as they want for elective care. What about basic care? Are they allowed to jump the queue, see a private doctor or go to a private hospital? Depends on the country. They can, and yet they tend not to _because they don’t have to_. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3664 "2015-10-15T12:54:13Z")
They cannot. In Canada, paying for basic care is illegal. [http://articles.latimes.com/2009/sep/27/nation/na-healthcare-canada27](http://articles.latimes.com/2009/sep/27/nation/na-healthcare-canada27) > [@](#): > > Hoping to capitalize on patients who might otherwise go to the U.S. for speedier care, a network of technically illegal private clinics and surgical centers has sprung up in British Columbia, echoing a trend in Quebec. In October, the courts will be asked to decide whether the budding system should be sanctioned. > > More than 70 private health providers in British Columbia now schedule simple surgeries and tests such as MRIs with waits as short as a week or two, compared with the months it takes for a public surgical suite to become available for nonessential operations. > > “What we have in Canada is access to a government, state-mandated wait list,” said Brian Day, a former Canadian Medical Assn. director who runs a private surgical center in Vancouver. “You cannot force a citizen in a free and democratic society to simply wait for healthcare, and outlaw their ability to extricate themselves from a wait list.” > > Yet the move into privatized care threatens to make the delays – already long from the perennial shortage of doctors and rationing of facilities – even longer, public healthcare advocates say. There will be fewer skilled healthcare workers in government hospitals as doctors and nurses are lured into better-paying private jobs, they say. > > “What it means is that people who have no money, who are chronically ill, disabled, who require medical attention frequently, are going to suffer dramatically,” said Leslie Dickout of the B.C. Health Coalition, which is involved in the lawsuit to determine whether the Canadian Constitution guarantees citizens the right to choose their own care. > > “There’s so much money to be made by the insurance industry,” she said. “If this [legal] case succeeds, what we would have is a system of U.S.-style healthcare – along with a public system that is decimated.” So private health care in Canada is a lot like Uber. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3665 "2015-10-15T12:56:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And so we have Medicaid. ACA solves every single complaint that liberals stated about our health care system. The only one it didn’t solve was the unspoken complaint: some people still get better care than others. Gee, you mean that all the working poor without insurance pre-ACA could have gotten Medicaid? That nobody ever had to choose between paying their rent and buying their medicine? Wow, why weren’t you called to testify to Congress in 2009 and tell them that there was no problem to solve? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3666 "2015-10-15T13:03:25Z")
People in single payer systems pay for medicine too. The whole point of ACA is that now we have a system like everyone else. Is it universal? No, but only because we still have the option to opt out. Everyone who wants health insurance now can get it. So aside from cost and forcing people to pay for health insurance(as in the real force, the kind with guns and stuff, not “penalties”, I’m not sure what single payer is supposed to fix. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3667 "2015-10-15T13:35:12Z")
We’ve been over this many times. Single payer is the minimum-overhead, minimum administrative bloat, minimum executive bonus etc. approach, therefore the minimum \*cost \*approach. Is getting rid of bloat a \*good \*thing for government and \*bad \*for the vaunted Private Enterprise that Republicans typically pretend to revere? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3668 "2015-10-17T17:06:20Z")
This is what you may end up, if you’re lucky; a tension between junior doctors dedicated to the system and yet worried about the terms of new contracts: > **[Leader of NHS junior doctors urges Jeremy Hunt to reopen negotiations](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/17/leader-of-nhs-junior-doctors-urges-jeremy-hunt-to-reopen-negotiations)** > > At London protest Dr Johann Malawana tells health secretary to stop lambasting junior medics, in bid to stop BMA strike ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3669 "2015-10-17T21:07:07Z")
The Republicans are, many years later, [converging on something.](http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/256960-consensus-emerging-in-gop-on-how-to-replace-obamacare) Give them credit. Nah. 😉 > [@](#): > > The plans all center on a tax credit intended to help people afford health insurance, along with more limited protection for people with preexisting health conditions and a cap on federal payments to states for the low-income Medicaid program. Which would be an improvement … how? Maybe we’ll find out when there’s an actual bill. If we get to read it. ---
**Author:** ![inscrutable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a88e4f/32.png) [@inscrutable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inscrutable)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3670 "2015-10-17T22:25:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Gee, you mean that all the working poor without insurance pre-ACA could have gotten Medicaid? That nobody ever had to choose between paying their rent and buying their medicine? Wow, why weren’t you called to testify to Congress in 2009 and tell them that there was no problem to solve? Do the “working poor” still have to cover deductibles and co-pays under ACA? Is health care under ACA really more “affordable” than before for the middle and upper-middle class? Hear plenty of reports that it is not. Possible that 4% of them might not vote D again next year? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3671 "2015-10-17T23:08:09Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Is health care under ACA really more “affordable” than before for the middle and upper-middle class? Hear plenty of reports that it is not. Possible that 4% of them might not vote D again next year? Yes, it is infinitely more affordable if you get a serious illness. When people say health care is more expensive under ACA, what they really mean is that their premiums, deductibles, and/or co-pays are slightly higher. But that only comes to, at most, a couple thousand a year, and only for people who can afford it, and only for people who don’t get sick. But if you get a serious illness or injury, you save a ton under the ACA, because now your insurance company can’t jack up your rates, or refuse to cover you at all by citing some minor discrepancy when you filled out the forms, or limit how much they’ll pay when you max out your deductible. The vast majority of people who grumble about the ACA never had a serious illness, so they don’t realize how easy it was for the insurance companies to screw you. I rarely get sick, and I pay a bit more now, but the difference to me is night and day, because before he ACA, there was literally NO WAY for me to budget my retirement, because I had no idea what I would have to lay out for medical bills. I have plenty of money for my normal expenses, but pre-ACA, I didn’t know how much of my savings I could spend, because I didn’t know what my insurance company might do if I got cancer ten years from now. Now, there’s a clear maximum out of pocket expense per year for me, and my insurance company can’t drop me or raise my premiums if I get sick, so it’s very easy to figure my expenses, and it’s well worth a few extra hundred a year to be able to do that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3672 "2015-10-17T23:16:15Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > … Hear plenty of reports that it is not… Yeah, people are saying that. Most likely can be fixed. You know who really likes the ACA? Middle class Moms. Moms who worry about their kids, being a bare majority of 99.9%. Moms who sent their kids to college to get their ticket to the middle class or better, kids that now are wandering around wondering where to cash it. Who didn’t have health insurance until that monster Obama. Moms that sleep better, worry just a bit less. Even Republican Moms are still Moms. Most all Dads are Republicans, but the good ones keep it in check. Ever get something you never had, but kinda needed but did without? That moment when some guy senses something is wrong, somewhere, not percolating the energy like he should? Gets half way down the road to well, it’ll pass, probably nothing, gets _really_ bad I can go to an emergency…and remembers that now, he can just go to the doctor. Get well. Priceless. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3673 "2015-10-21T21:16:24Z")
Seems that all those health care insurers that were so opposed to Obamacare are now embracing it, as is Wall Street. So why are the Republicans attempting to repeal Obamacare and hurt America’s corporations? [Health Insurers Gain Under Obamacare - Zacks Equity Research](http://www.zacks.com/commentary/59863/health-insurers-gain-under-obamacare?cid=CS-TICKERTECH-HL-59863) > [@](#): > > After a choppy ride, the health insurance industry is finally on the growth path. Though initially criticized by the industry, the health care reform has turned out to be beneficial to industry players. Courtesy of Obamacare, the players have witnessed meaningful gains in their membership enrollments. > > Now, after more than five years of sharing the space with Obamacare, the insurers have embraced the law and also gave technical assistance to the government when the public exchange suffered glitches at its debut. > > … > > The trend of share price movement of the biggest four health insurance companies also attests to the fact that the market has been optimistic about the ultimate effects of the law on the health insurers. While the S&P 500 index has gone up 73% since the passing of the bill, UnitedHealth Group, Aetna, Cigna, Humana Inc. and Anthem Inc. have outperformed with 293%, 245%, 282%, 294%, and 150% gains, respectively. > > … > > Less Uninsured = More Revenues > > The nation’s uninsured rate has plummeted since ACA took effect. Before ACA, around 47 million lacked health coverage. As of the second quarter of 2015, the uninsured rate is 9.2% for all Americans. According to an ongoing NHIS/CDC study, the current uninsured rate of 9.2% for 2015 is the lowest in over 50 years. > > Though the data clearly shows that Obamacare has accomplished its purpose, it also points to the huge insurance coverage provided by the health insurers. A reduction in uninsured rates implies membership gains for the insurers which go on to help their top lines. Most health insurers have reported a secular rise in their revenues from membership gains because of the law. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3674 "2015-10-22T09:22:52Z")
“_Fewer_ Uninsured”, dammit. Not “less”. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3675 "2015-10-24T03:11:25Z")
Mitt Romney praises Obamacare, then immediately gets a hold of himself: [http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/23/politics/mitt-romney-obamacare/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/23/politics/mitt-romney-obamacare/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3676 "2015-10-24T07:34:03Z")
People are talking about him, the momentum is building! ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3677 "2015-10-24T09:45:48Z")
In 10 years they won’t bother with those lapel flag they’ll just get a tattoo across the forehead. Fucking ridiculous for serious adults. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3678 "2015-10-24T15:37:33Z")
A mark on their forehead, you say? Hmmm. Heard something like that before, can’t quite put my finger on it… ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3679 "2015-10-24T17:20:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s about social solidarity. That’s why single payer countries care just as much about preventing rich people from getting good care as they do about getting poor people better care. Nonsense. I know of no single payer country in Europe where private care is illegal, or where there are any obstacles to obtaining it other than having the money or the insurance policy to pay for it. Yes, it’s about social solidarity - meaning making sure the care available is good enough for anyone to want to use it. And most do. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3680 "2015-10-24T17:30:48Z")
Canada does it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3681 "2015-10-24T18:22:38Z")
Would that explain their recent display of rage and fury against liberal, big-government policies? And has Canada demanded admittance to the EU? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=183) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=185)