# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 187
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3722 "2016-01-08T18:43:50Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > :smack: Oh, that’s right. And ACA “doesn’t work.” > > (The fact that I’ve been using it for some time now with no problems doesn’t count.) It was founded on a lie. > **[Lie of the Year: 'If you like your health care plan, you can keep it'](https://www.politifact.com/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/)** > > It was a catchy political pitch and a chance to calm nerves about his dramatic and complicated plan to bring historic ch ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3723 "2016-01-08T18:47:49Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It was founded on a lie. You gotta break a few eggs to make a frittata. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3724 "2016-01-08T18:50:38Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You gotta break a few eggs to make a frittata. The ends justify the means, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3725 "2016-01-08T18:51:35Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The ends justify the means, correct? No. But the “lie” is true in the large majority of cases. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3726 "2016-01-08T18:52:24Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The ends justify the means, correct? It would have passed even if he hadn’t made that statement. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3727 "2016-01-08T19:09:07Z")
Overall I am all for it and believe it was high time we had health care reform here in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3728 "2016-01-08T19:12:32Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It was founded on a lie. > > [PolitiFact | Lie of the Year: 'If you like your health care plan, you can keep it'](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/) The statement, which is true in the vast majority of the cases, had nothing to do with passing the bill or “founding” it. Was your old plan compliant? If not, you couldn’t keep it. Was your old insurer going out of business? If so, you could hardly keep it, could you? Almost everybody kept their old plans. For a very limited number, they could not keep their plan. Since the statement is true for many more people than it was not, it cannot be said with a straight face to be a lie. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3729 "2016-01-08T19:21:14Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Since the statement is true for many more people than it was not, it cannot be said with a straight face to be a lie. “Faithful to my wife? Why, I’ve never been with another woman!” “You’ve cheated on her with dozens and dozens of women.” “One just this morning! But not _most_ women.” ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3730 "2016-01-08T19:29:33Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > “Faithful to my wife? Why, I’ve never been with another woman!” > “You’ve cheated on her with dozens and dozens of women.” > “One just this morning! But not _most_ women.” I think a better analogy would be: After we enact these food safety rules, you can still eat at your favorite restaurant. Oh, your favorite place closed down? Well, their hamburgers were half asbestos by weight, so we closed them down. There are plenty of non-asbestos burgers around if you want… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3731 "2016-01-08T19:41:53Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I think a better analogy would be: > > After we enact these food safety rules, you can still eat at your favorite restaurant. Sure, we could analogize it to all _sorts_ of lies that are usually true. “I never murdered anybody. Well, not most people. I mean, I haven’t even _met_ most people.” Or maybe: “I’m unemployed. Sure, I have a paying _job,_ but that’s only 40 hours a week; the other 128 hours a week – the vast majority of the time – I’m just aimless.” (“Read my lips: No New Taxes. Not absolutely; just compared to what I _could_ do.”) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3732 "2016-01-08T20:56:26Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It was founded on a lie. > > [PolitiFact | Lie of the Year: 'If you like your health care plan, you can keep it'](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/) Whoa there! What’s with the time travel? Or do we have backward causality across time in some other manner? Due to a ‘lie’ in 2013\*, the ACA was passed by Congress and signed by the President in 2009 and 2010? \*“Lie of the year”? Dear PolitEquate: if that was the worst falsehood spoken by a major American political figure in 2013, it was the most honest year in American politics since the rise of Nixon, at least. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3733 "2016-01-08T21:20:30Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Yeah, well, some other guy on the internet is paying twice as much now! > > He’s doing that because he’s too ignorant to know that pre ACA he had a useless catastrophic plan that would do nothing for him if he got sick. But you know, tyranny. The worst of the useless plans weren’t catastrophic - in fact, they were the opposite. They were sold dirt cheap to low wage workers who paid around $25 a month in premiums for individuals or $60 for families Here are the specifications on one of these plans [http://2013.mypayless.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Starbridge\_-\_Group\_1629\_-\_2013\_SBC\_Level\_1\_Medical.pdf](http://2013.mypayless.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Starbridge_-_Group_1629_-_2013_SBC_Level_1_Medical.pdf) People that had these plans often loved them, they were cheap and they offered up $15 doctors visits and discounts on prescriptions. I would venture to say that most of the people that loved the plan never got sick or they would have quickly discovered that the plan had an annual limit on benefits of $1000 for outpatient, although if you were actually hospitalized your maximum annual benefit went up to 2000 whole dollars. Wow, great insurance Of course, people who had these plans freaked out when they were discontinued and they had to pay more than 10 times as much for ACA compliant insurance. Most of them had never really used their insurance for anything halfway serious so they never knew how useless their insurance was. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3734 "2016-01-08T21:44:47Z")
So he could’ve told the truth: _“If you like your plan, you can keep it, if I like it too.”_ Or: _“If you like your plan, you can keep it, unless I think you’re ignorant.”_ So why would he bother to lie, since he could just sell it on those merits? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3735 "2016-01-08T22:24:17Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Sure, we could analogize it to all _sorts_ of lies that are usually true. “I never murdered anybody. Well, not most people. I mean, I haven’t even _met_ most people.” Or maybe: “I’m unemployed. Sure, I have a paying _job,_ but that’s only 40 hours a week; the other 128 hours a week – the vast majority of the time – I’m just aimless.” > > (“Read my lips: No New Taxes. Not absolutely; just compared to what I _could_ do.”) Wow, must be shitty to have that as the best response you can come up with. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3736 "2016-01-08T22:26:12Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > The worst of the useless plans weren’t catastrophic - in fact, they were the opposite. They were sold dirt cheap to low wage workers who paid around $25 a month in premiums for individuals or $60 for families > > Here are the specifications on one of these plans > [http://2013.mypayless.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Starbridge\_-\_Group\_1629\_-\_2013\_SBC\_Level\_1\_Medical.pdf](http://2013.mypayless.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Starbridge_-_Group_1629_-_2013_SBC_Level_1_Medical.pdf) > > People that had these plans often loved them, they were cheap and they offered up $15 doctors visits and discounts on prescriptions. > > I would venture to say that most of the people that loved the plan never got sick or they would have quickly discovered that the plan had an annual limit on benefits of $1000 for outpatient, although if you were actually hospitalized your maximum annual benefit went up to 2000 whole dollars. Wow, great insurance > > Of course, people who had these plans freaked out when they were discontinued and they had to pay more than 10 times as much for ACA compliant insurance. Most of them had never really used their insurance for anything halfway serious so they never knew how useless their insurance was. Ouch. That’s super shitty. Worse than I knew. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3737 "2016-01-08T22:38:40Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Wow, must be shitty to have that as the best response you can come up with. Sorry. I can produce any _number_ of analogous lies; they’d all be as shitty as Obama’s lie. “That gun’s not loaded.” \ “Well, not most of the time.” “I didn’t kill my wife.” “Yes, you did.” “But not _most_ days. So that’s, like, a thousand to one!” “Judge, my client is a minor.” “No, he’s not.” “Well, no. But for most of his life, he was.” “So you lied?” “I don’t see it that way.” “You’re fired.” “What? Why?” “For being drunk on the job.” “I’ve never been drunk on the job!” “YOU’RE DRUNK ON THE JOB RIGHT NOW!” “Well, yes.” “You get drunk EVERY Friday afternoon!” “Oh, like clockwork! But only after three!” “How is that relevant?” “Well, that’s only five percent of the time, see.” “So?” “So it’s not a lie!” ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3738 "2016-01-08T22:50:43Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I can produce any _number_ of analogous lies; they’d all be as shitty as Obama’s lie. > > “That gun’s not loaded.” \ “Well, not most of the time.” > > “I didn’t kill my wife.” > “Yes, you did.” > “But not _most_ days. So that’s, like, a thousand to one!” > > “Judge, my client is a minor.” > “No, he’s not.” > “Well, no. But for most of his life, he was.” > “So you lied?” > “I don’t see it that way.” > > “You’re fired.” > “What? Why?” > “For being drunk on the job.” > “I’ve never been drunk on the job!” > “YOU’RE DRUNK ON THE JOB RIGHT NOW!” > “Well, yes.” > “You get drunk EVERY Friday afternoon!” > “Oh, like clockwork! But only after three!” > “How is that relevant?” > “Well, that’s only five percent of the time, see.” > “So?” > “So it’s not a lie!” Yep, there are some more. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3739 "2016-01-08T22:56:27Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Yep, there are some more. Of course; I’ll readily analogize false advertising to false advertising, perjury to perjury, lies to lies. And the excuse that it’s usually true would never be persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3740 "2016-01-09T00:08:51Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Of course; I’ll readily analogize false advertising to false advertising, perjury to perjury, lies to lies. And the excuse that it’s usually true would never be persuasive. Or, you know, you could say that it’s not much of a lie. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/3741 "2016-01-09T00:11:30Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > What is the GOP’s alternative to ACA? The word No. > [@](#): > > If they succeed in repealing it, will they have anything to offer in its place? Some of them have always realized [they need to present something](http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-congress-obamacare-repeal-20160106-story.html)of their own. But only a few of them. So it hasn’t happened and isn’t going to. > [@](#): > > “It might be a wise thing now for Republicans in Congress to articulate a well-thought-out plan as, shall we say, a suggestion,” said Joe Antos, a longtime health policy expert at the conservative American Enterprise Institute in Washington. “That seems like a sensible thing for a political party to do in these uncertain times.” Bold words, Joe. Bold words indeed. 😉 [Unless the poll standings hold:](http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-congress-obamacare-repeal-20160106-story.html) > [@](#): > > Trump, who is increasingly worrying Republican party leaders, has said little on the campaign trail about healthcare beyond bashing the current law and promising that “everybody’s going to be taken care of” and “the government’s gonna pay for it,” as he said on “60 Minutes” in September. > > In the past, Trump has expressed admiration for government-run systems in other countries such as Britain and Canada. Such systems are anathema to most conservatives. At least there’s one respect in which he might not be a total disaster. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=186) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=188)