# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/381 "2013-08-13T22:21:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Then we can repeal this law by executive order. It doesn’t quite work that way, pal. Here, [maybe this will help](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyeJ55o3El0). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/382 "2013-08-13T23:57:52Z")
It didn’t work that way, until Obama. Now Presidents have total discretion over what laws they will execute and which they won’t. As for the “millions” who will benefit from the law, you’re dreaming. Let’s see how many people actually sign up. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/383 "2013-08-14T00:55:01Z")
Are you going to finally take Civics this semester, **adaher**? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/384 "2013-08-14T00:58:57Z")
Then explain why the President can just refuse to implement key parts of the law, and why that also wouldn’t apply to his successors. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/385 "2013-08-14T01:05:39Z")
And just so we don’t forget: “If you like your plan, you can keep it.” Lie. > **[Low-premium, high-deductible health plans are endangered by Affordable Care Act](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/low-premium-high-deductible-health-plans-are-endangered-by-affordable-care-act/2013/08/12/6b63ffac-fa46-11e2-9bde-7ddaa186b751_story.html)** > > Some policy holders balk at the idea: ‘I’m happy where I am now.’ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/386 "2013-08-14T02:10:15Z")
[Ha! 26¢ short! Gotcha!](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/-man-denied-life-saving-surgery-over-26-cent-insurance-dispute--212103627.html) A guy was 26¢ short on a COBRA payment. Even though the payment wasn’t due, the man’s former employer instructed the company collecting payments not to accept any payments from him. ACA is a poor substitute for a proper single-payer system, but it’s a step in the right direction and isn’t going to let someone die over a quarter and a penny. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/387 "2013-08-14T13:06:47Z")
It’s really time for Democrats to stop the denial. NBC reports that yes, people are facing serious hardships due to the incentives created by the employer mandate. And now the head of the food workers union confirms it: > **[Investigations: U.S. & World News Investigations](https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations)** > > Find the latest reporting on U.S. and world investigations. View articles, photos and videos covering criminal justice and exposing corruption, scandal and more on NBCNews.com. The White House dismisses such examples as “anecdotal.” Jason Furman, chairman of the president’s Council of Economic Advisors, said, “We are seeing no systematic evidence that the Affordable Care Act is having an adverse impact on job growth or the number of hours employees are working. … [S]ince the ACA became law, nearly 90 percent of the gain in employment has been in full-time positions.” But the president of an influential union that supports Obamacare said the White House is wrong. “It IS happening,” insisted Joseph Hansen, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers union, which has 1.2 million members. “Wait a year. You’ll see tremendous impact as workers have their hours reduced and their incomes reduced. The facts are already starting to show up. Their statistics, I think, are a little behind the time.” In a letter to Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill, Hansen joined other labor chieftains in warning that the ACA as presently written could “destroy the foundation of the 40-hour work week that is the backbone of the middle class.” NBC News spoke with almost 20 small businesses and other entities from Maine to California, and almost all said that because of the new law they’d be cutting back hours for some employees – an unintended consequence of the new law. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/388 "2013-08-14T14:30:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s really time for Democrats to stop the denial. NBC reports that yes, people are facing serious hardships due to the incentives created by the employer mandate. And now the head of the food workers union confirms it: > > [Investigations: U.S. & World News Investigations | NBC News](http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/13/20010062-businesses-claim-obamacare-has-forced-them-to-cut-employee-hours) > > The White House dismisses such examples as “anecdotal.” Jason Furman, chairman of the president’s Council of Economic Advisors, said, “We are seeing no systematic evidence that the Affordable Care Act is having an adverse impact on job growth or the number of hours employees are working. … [S]ince the ACA became law, nearly 90 percent of the gain in employment has been in full-time positions.” > > But the president of an influential union that supports Obamacare said the White House is wrong. > > “It IS happening,” insisted Joseph Hansen, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers union, which has 1.2 million members. “Wait a year. You’ll see tremendous impact as workers have their hours reduced and their incomes reduced. The facts are already starting to show up. Their statistics, I think, are a little behind the time.” > > In a letter to Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill, Hansen joined other labor chieftains in warning that the ACA as presently written could “destroy the foundation of the 40-hour work week that is the backbone of the middle class.” > > NBC News spoke with almost 20 small businesses and other entities from Maine to California, and almost all said that because of the new law they’d be cutting back hours for some employees – an unintended consequence of the new law. “Wait a year.” Yep, anecdotal. When even the one interviewed is talking about “Maybe” it is even worse, I put it again in the same column of your peculiar dictionary definitions. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/389 "2013-08-14T16:07:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Just three, hopefully. Then we can repeal this law by executive order. LOL- that’s gonna be popular. My child will be a college junior and you’re not only not gonna let me keep her on my insurance, but leave her uninsured as well? Thanks. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/390 "2013-08-14T17:57:48Z")
I addressed this issue earlier when the employer mandate delay was first announced. In short: More demagoging, more sky-is-falling predictions, more bullshit. Nothing bad has _actually_ happened. When you have the union leader saying to “wait a year” and the article itself referencing holier-than-thou nameless small business owners who _intend_ to cut hours because of the law, you have lost all of your credibility. Assessments can’t be made based on far off future fears that may or not even happen or employers’ fucking _intentions._ Give me a break. Move on. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/391 "2013-08-14T19:05:45Z")
I can’t find the text of the letter that **adaher** refers to, but if it is about union leaders complaining about the ACA, my guess is that it has more to do with protecting “Cadillac health plans” than anything else: [link.](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/05/nyregion/health-care-law-raises-pressure-on-public-employees-unions.html) Conservatives remember what Cadillac health plans for unions are, right? Those are the things that are forcing cities into bankruptcy, making American businesses fail, the living embodiment of union corruption, etc.? ETA: oh, now that I read the REST of the article, the union is complaining both about Cadillac health plans AND that the unions propose to LOWER the minimum hourly requirement for employer coverage from 30 hours to 20 hours… in effect, the union that **adaher** quoted as being against Obamacare is complaining that the ACA should cover MORE employees! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/392 "2013-08-14T21:54:30Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > ETA: oh, now that I read the REST of the article, the union is complaining both about Cadillac health plans AND that the unions propose to LOWER the minimum hourly requirement for employer coverage from 30 hours to 20 hours… in effect, the union that **adaher** quoted as being against Obamacare is complaining that the ACA should cover MORE employees! Yep, the article on the whole does refer to the president of that influential union **affirming in the end that they still support the act,** once again, the point on that post from adaher was misleading. My experience has been that usually an article that is fair is pointed out by right wing nut sources with spin added that claims that people like a union president was against “X”, unfortunately the spin is misleading the subject actually approves of “X”. Then some guys that do not mind getting “burned” (I think some have no shame whatsoever) then post them here with the spin that the right wing site (or email) gave to it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/393 "2013-08-16T07:28:33Z")
Gee, what could possibly go wrong with untrained people, with no criminal background checks, being given access to Americans’ Social Security numbers and tax info? > **[Obamacare’s Branch of the NSA | National Review](https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/07/obamacares-branch-nsa-john-fund/)** > > President Obama has had a poor record of job creation, but at least one small economic sector is doing well: community organizing. The Department of Health and Human Services is about to hire an ar… Not to mention the simple fact that this is the same kind of data collection that gets condemned when it’s for terrorism prevention. But for health care, well, that’s okay, Americans shouldn’t expect privacy in that case. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/394 "2013-08-16T08:29:32Z")
What a piece of garbage this opinion article from NR is. > [@adaher](#): > > Gee, what could possibly go wrong with untrained people, with no criminal background checks, being given access to Americans’ Social Security numbers and tax info? There are many corporations and private companies that use prison labor and overseas help desk that have access to social security number information and others, with even less pay. [http://prisonmovement.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/prison-labor-exposed/](http://prisonmovement.wordpress.com/2013/03/04/prison-labor-exposed/) What the sorry NR piece forgets to mention is that there are safeguards that are deemed effective and known already for years in cases like that. > [@adaher](#): > > Not to mention the simple fact that this is the same kind of data collection that gets condemned when it’s for terrorism prevention. But for health care, well, that’s okay, Americans shouldn’t expect privacy in that case. What I pointed out already is enough to declare this piece of FUD complete garbage, but the writer had to go to mention ACORN, implying that the people hired will come from the same full of scandal groups, but recently the source that created the scandal that shut down ACORN had to pay a worker that lost his job as the evidence demonstrated that O’keffe slandered the workers, turns out that the reason why that organization was shut down was bogus. Using simple logic tells me that at the levels the jobs at the hub will be paid for it means that security checks and other features are already included, at those rates it is unlikely that we are talking prison labor or overseas help desk. Once again, FUD and garbage. again, just FUD and basically a repeat of the already mentioned ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/395 "2013-08-16T08:39:27Z")
Ran of of edit time, Again, that piece was basically just FUD and it is basically a repeat of the already mentioned issue of the setup of the exchanges that is made more complicated thanks to several states not helping. As I pointed before, it is really dumb for conservative politicians to act innocent when the problem they complain is in great part related to what they are doing to prevent the law from being implemented. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/396 "2013-08-16T08:43:56Z")
Major problems with your argument, although I’m grateful that you made one this time. First, corporations gather data from people voluntarily. If you choose to trust a business with your data, you do it at your own risk. the public has no options with the Federal Data Hub. Second, the data in the hub is much more extensive than what the average corporation has. Corporations may have your SS#, but they do not have your income in most cases, or any of the other things the data hub tracks to determine your eligibility for ACA subsidies. Third, your defense is that the government is no worse than your average corporation? Excuse me, but most corporations do criminal background checks. Those that don’t, post them here, because I’m sure people would like to know who NOT to give private information to. Fourth, it’s unnecessary to give community organizers access to the Hub. If people want health benefits, they’ll go get them. They don’t need to be recruited. It is simply not a necessary invasion of privacy. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/397 "2013-08-16T08:52:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Major problems with your argument, although I’m grateful that you made one this time. > > First, corporations gather data from people voluntarily. If you choose to trust a business with your data, you do it at your own risk. the public has no options with the Federal Data Hub. Useless point as I mentioned that it is the security levels what are the important ussue here. > [@adaher](#): > > Second, the data in the hub is much more extensive than what the average corporation has. Corporations may have your SS#, but they do not have your income in most cases, or any of the other things the data hub tracks to determine your eligibility for ACA subsidies. And the IRS and many other government orgs already do, once again the issue is with the levels of security, your argument that it is voluntary or not is not much relevant is just a smoke screen. > [@adaher](#): > > Third, your defense is that the government is no worse than your average corporation? Excuse me, but most corporations do criminal background checks. Those that don’t, post them here, because I’m sure people would like to know who NOT to give private information to. I worked on both private and government settings, at my levels of pay you bet I got checked on my criminal background as I had and have access to private records. > [@adaher](#): > > Fourth, it’s unnecessary to give community organizers access to the Hub. That is one of the issues I identified as garbage\*\* as there is no evidence of this presented in that article\*\*. > [@adaher](#): > > If people want health benefits, they’ll go get them. They don’t need to be recruited. It is simply not a necessary invasion of privacy. Once again, the article is just offering a guess, it is garbage as it ignores what happens to people that even makes $15 to less than $20 that has access to private information, fingerprints checks and other backgrounds are common. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/398 "2013-08-16T09:02:44Z")
And that is example #10,000 of why one should not rely on the National Review, [I have seen so many examples of sorry FUD pieces coming from them](http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/344426/new-climate-deniers-rich-lowry) that it is better to not use them as a source, specially when it is an opinion with ignorance built in. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/399 "2013-08-16T09:33:57Z")
We’ve been seeing this line of argument before: it hasn’t happened yet, this is only speculation, then when what is predicted happens, “Does it even really matter?” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/400 "2013-08-16T09:40:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We’ve been seeing this line of argument before: it hasn’t happened yet, this is only speculation, then when what is predicted happens, “Does it even really matter?” Only that it is not, your argument has no evidence. Worse, as the ACORN bit should had told you, the NR writer forgot to tell you the lies that were committed to get rid of it. IMHO they are not mentioning the recent settlement that O’Keffe and buddies had to make as it does not fit the narrative of “corruption” they want to make. And they do not want to call attention to the fact that they are using the same false smears with the ACA. As they are on the record of also being climate change deniers the NR is just about the last place I would go for opinions, as they are very easy to shot down as they indeed add the ignorance in spades to their opinion pieces, they really did go to the toilet after William F. Buckley’s death. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=21)