# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/502 "2013-10-03T23:42:25Z")
So if that doesn’t happen, we can repeal it? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/503 "2013-10-03T23:49:04Z")
Sure. You can repeal it today, if you want. Just get enough votes in the House and Senate, and a president who will sign it. That’s how our country works. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/504 "2013-10-03T23:50:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So if that doesn’t happen, we can repeal it? You can repeal it any time you want, just get the members of congress. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/505 "2013-10-04T00:03:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So if that doesn’t happen, we can repeal it? Just talk to your lawmakers; that’s what they’re paid to do. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/506 "2013-10-04T00:10:51Z")
What I meant was, if it fails in its core mission, will Democrats support repeal? What if few sign up? Is the solution draconian enforcement, or just accept that the public won’t go along? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/507 "2013-10-04T00:36:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What I meant was, if it fails in its core mission, will Democrats support repeal? Sure. Any law that doesn’t work should be repealed. Opinions on what constitutes failure may differ. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/508 "2013-10-04T00:42:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Anyway, my point is that much as the Iraq war wasn’t sold as bringing Iraqis democracy… As **adaher** continues to live up to his usual standards for accuracy: From the Feb. 23, 2003 [Approx 3 weeks before the commencement of Operation Iraqi Freedom], PBS Newshour: MARGARET WARNER: Last night, Pres. Bush laid out his argument that a post-Saddam Iraq could become a flourishing democracy. PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH: There was a time when many said that the cultures of Japan and Germany were incapable of sustaining democratic values. Well, they were wrong. Some say the same of Iraq today. They are mistaken. (Applause) The nation of Iraq, with its proud heritage, abundant resources and skilled and educated people, is fully capable of moving toward democracy and living in freedom. (Applause) MARGARET WARNER: The president further asserted that a democratic Iraq could transform the entire region in a similar way. PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH: … A new regime in Iraq would serve as a dramatic and inspiring example of freedom for other nations in the region. (Applause) … [http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle\_east/jan-june03/democracy\_2-27.html](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/jan-june03/democracy_2-27.html) ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/509 "2013-10-04T00:50:09Z")
I expect something this big to be buggy and maybe new regulations will have to be passed to plug holes here and there. After a fair chance, if it fails it fails. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/510 "2013-10-04T00:50:55Z")
So the position of 42fish is that the Iraq war was sold as a crusade to bring democracy to Iraq? Anyone care to agree with that position? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/511 "2013-10-04T00:52:41Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I expect something this big to be buggy and maybe new regulations will have to be passed to plug holes here and there. After a fair chance, if it fails it fails. I’m not going to slam the bugginess, because it’s been up for what, 3 days? But what is striking is that people who are getting all the way through aren’t actually signing up. If that holds, then the law crashes and burns. Well, not really, because candidate Obama was right the first time: you don’t need to force people to buy health insurance. The best solution, if participation is underwhelming, is to repeal the mandate, repeal the mandates for what insurance must cover, and just let the exchanges stand as a marketplace for consumers to buy insurance, any insurance, that they want. That would likely increase participation. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/512 "2013-10-04T01:18:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The best solution, if participation is underwhelming, is to repeal the mandate, repeal the mandates for what insurance must cover, and just let the exchanges stand as a marketplace for consumers to buy insurance, any insurance, that they want. How is that different from what we have now, which is not very successful? Can we repeal the current free market health care system? ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/513 "2013-10-04T01:26:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So the position of 42fish is that the Iraq war was sold as a crusade to bring democracy to Iraq? Anyone care to agree with that position? The War in Iraq was of course primarily sold on the bogus WMD argument. However, as the quoted material indicates, Bush also sold it as a means of bringing democracy to Iraq. Kinda like how a commercial can sell a cereal as both tasty and part of this complete breakfast. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/514 "2013-10-04T01:34:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m not going to slam the bugginess, because it’s been up for what, 3 days? But what is striking is that people who are getting all the way through aren’t actually signing up. If that holds, then the law crashes and burns. Well, not really, because candidate Obama was right the first time: you don’t need to force people to buy health insurance. > > The best solution, if participation is underwhelming, is to repeal the mandate, repeal the mandates for what insurance must cover, and just let the exchanges stand as a marketplace for consumers to buy insurance, any insurance, that they want. That would likely increase participation. Once again, you are relying on Iffinitis Aguda, take some chill pills. > **[Review: HealthCare.gov a winner despite glitches](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/10/03/healthcaregov-website-review/2912987/)** > > HealthCare.gov review: Glitches aside, the website is what the doctor ordered for consumers. > [@](#): > > Review: [HealthCare.gov](http://HealthCare.gov) a winner despite glitches > > … > > Finally, I asked for a basic rundown of the ACA’s toughest test case — a 27-year old single person making $20,000 a year. More than a quarter of young adults are uninsured and $20,000 in annual income is too much to qualify for Medicaid, but not enough to buy private insurance easily. I assumed this client smokes and lives in Jacksonville, Fla. > > That silver policy costs $3,051, and the customer’s share is $1,021, after the subsidies, Kaiser estimates. The average single worker contributes $999 for employer-provided coverage. A bronze plan with higher deductibles costs the worker $627, or $52 a month after subsidies.Not even cigarette money. > > How is that possible? [HealthCare.gov](http://HealthCare.gov)’s logic is that selling every company’s policies in the same place together forces insurers to offer their best prices. That undoubtedly helps. Some group plans may cover more too, though group plans have plenty of gaps as employers pass more health-care costs to workers. Kaiser says the average group-plan deductible for single workers is $1,135. > > … > > Site-performance issues matter, but don’t ruffle e-commerce veterans much. I talked to a half-dozen, including two Bush administration officials who launched the marketplace for Medicare prescription-drug plans. > > They said the problems may take a few weeks to two months to fix — and won’t matter in the long run. Medicare Part D had smaller launch problems, now forgotten. "Every Internet company on the planet has had trouble scaling,‘’ says Ed Park, chief operating officer of Athenahealth, a Web-based processor of health-insurance reimbursements, whose brother Todd is the Obama administration’s chief technology officer. "It happens to Twitter, to Amazon, Apple and Facebook.‘’ > > People thought Amazon and Priceline would collapse during the dot-com bust too, and Netflix’s obituaries have had more episodes than House of Cards. They won because they have delivered fundamental value. For [Healthcare.gov](http://Healthcare.gov), the fundamentals are well-priced insurance, clearly explained. And they’re in place. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/515 "2013-10-04T01:50:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’But what is striking is that people who are getting all the way through aren’t actually signing up. Sorry if I missed it but do you have a cite for this? Also, of those who do not sign up, how many are actually uninsured and need insurance, not just curious looky loos? Any numbers on those who sign up on a later visit? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/516 "2013-10-04T03:23:12Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How is that different from what we have now, which is not very successful? Can we repeal the current free market health care system? What’s different is that between the Medicaid expansion and the subsidies, health care would be affordable for all without the coercion. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/517 "2013-10-04T03:25:31Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Once again, you are relying on Iffinitis Aguda, take some chill pills. If I’m a young male making $20,000/yr, and my share is “merely” $80/month, you know what I’m doing? Eating, not buying health insurance. A young male making $20,000/yr can’t afford to spend $5 on health insurance, much less $80. When I made that much, and it went further back then, I used to sweat when my electric bill was $50 instead of the expected $30. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/518 "2013-10-04T03:26:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What’s different is that between the Medicaid expansion and the subsidies, health care would be affordable for all without the coercion. Not and keep it revenue neutral like the CBO scored it. You plan would break the bank, because only the old and sick would sign up. Look up “adverse selection” sometime. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/519 "2013-10-04T03:35:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’m not going to slam the bugginess, because it’s been up for what, 3 days? But what is striking is that people who are getting all the way through aren’t actually signing up. If that holds, then the law crashes and burns. Well, not really, because candidate Obama was right the first time: you don’t need to force people to buy health insurance. > > The best solution, if participation is underwhelming, is to repeal the mandate, **repeal the mandates for what insurance must cover** , and just let the exchanges stand as a marketplace for consumers to buy insurance, any insurance, that they want. That would likely increase participation. That seems like a really dumb idea - if there is no basic minimum standard for what needs to be covered it is as good as having no insurance. You will see plans that only cover a flu jab and nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/520 "2013-10-04T03:41:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If I’m a young male making $20,000/yr, and my share is “merely” $80/month, you know what I’m doing? Eating, not buying health insurance. > > A young male making $20,000/yr can’t afford to spend $5 on health insurance, much less $80. When I made that much, and it went further back then, I used to sweat when my electric bill was $50 instead of the expected $30. That is why there is a mandate. Again, that was the toughest case, other less well to do have it easier, besides the point was that you are basing your bit on “people not signing up” and unless a cite comes you are basing your “if” on ignorance. And you already showed a lot of it regarding what happens on a big launch of a product when there is a lot of demand. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/521 "2013-10-04T03:46:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Not and keep it revenue neutral like the CBO scored it. You plan would break the bank, because only the old and sick would sign up. Look up “adverse selection” sometime. The individual mandate isn’t actually a sufficient enforcement mechanism to get the young and healthy to sign up. I understand adverse selection, but it doesn’t necessarily have to happen. Employers do just fine letting people choose whether or not to buy insurance. Enrollment periods work just fine and would be better than a mandate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=27)