# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/522 "2013-10-04T03:47:57Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > That is why there is a mandate. > > Again, that was the toughest case, other less well to do have it easier, besides the point was that you are basing your bit on “people not signing up” and unless a cite comes you are basing your “if” on ignorance. And you already showed a lot of it regarding what happens on a big launch of a product when there is a lot of demand. The mandate is insufficient. The young male can pay $95 this year for the penalty, or simply not pay at all by making sure he doesn’t overpay from his paycheck and thus give the IRS a refund to dock. And even if the mandate was sufficient it would be immoral to tell a young person that his first duty is to help provide insurance for sicker people rather than feeding himself. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/523 "2013-10-04T03:57:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The mandate is insufficient. The young male can pay $95 this year for the penalty, or simply not pay at all by making sure he doesn’t overpay from his paycheck and thus give the IRS a refund to dock. > > And even if the mandate was sufficient it would be immoral to tell a young person that his first duty is to help provide insurance for sicker people rather than feeding himself. And it’s immoral for many others to go hungry so they can pay a share of his million dollar hospital stay that he’s doesn’t have to pay a dime for. Happened to me. 20 years of paying premiums and never saw a doctor except for DOT required physicals. Until [this day](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=323324). We’re all in this together. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/524 "2013-10-04T04:02:36Z")
What **runner pat** said, and \*\*adaher \*\*is still with no support for his “no one signing up” affirmation. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/525 "2013-10-04T04:04:16Z")
Problem is, you’re paying that freight already because you’re subidizing most of his insurance costs. In scenario A, the taxpayers pay $20,000 over 10 years for his insurance. He pays $10,000(numbers are approximate). In scenario B, the taxpayers pay nothing, he pays nothing(if he knows how to get around the mandate). Now maybe he will incur medical bills. The odds that a 20-year old will incur $20,000 or more in medical bills by the time he’s 30 are relatively low. Actually, very low, otherwise the math wouldn’t add up. He’s supposed to pay more so sick people can pay less. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/526 "2013-10-04T04:06:02Z")
As for how many have signed up, why won’t the government release those numbers? > **[Plenty of Browsers at Obamacare Exchanges, but Not Clear How Many Buyers |...](https://nation.time.com/2013/10/01/plenty-of-browsers-at-obamacare-exchanges-but-not-clear-how-many-buyers/?xid=rss-topstories)** > > Millions of Americans visited the online health-insurance exchanges despite widespread tech glitches ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/527 "2013-10-04T04:08:15Z")
Hmmm… because it’s shut down ? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/528 "2013-10-04T04:08:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As for how many have signed up, why won’t the government release those numbers? Since your heroes forced a shutdown, who knows? It’s only been three days, I don’t remember seeing a promise of hourly updates. People are still signing up and will be doing so through the entire enrollment period. And that’s a fucking stupid thing to be complaining about. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/529 "2013-10-04T04:14:40Z")
If people liked what they saw, they wouldn’t be holding back from signing up. What, people don’t need insurance today, they can wait till next month or the month after? What is actually happening is that a lot of young people are seeing that they’ll have $100-$200 less per month to spend on what they actually want to spend money on and are declining. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/530 "2013-10-04T04:23:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If people liked what they saw, they wouldn’t be holding back from signing up. What, people don’t need insurance today, they can wait till next month or the month after? > > What is actually happening is that a lot of young people are seeing that they’ll have $100-$200 less per month to spend on what they actually want to spend money on and are declining. There is no way that everyone who wants to sign up can do so all at once. Some people will have their own reasons to wait a few days. If I were doing this, I would wait until the first rush is over and the sites are running smoothly again. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/531 "2013-10-04T04:24:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If people liked what they saw, they wouldn’t be holding back from signing up. Are they holding back? As far as I know, they are signing up by the millions. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/532 "2013-10-04T04:26:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What, people don’t need insurance today, they can wait till next month or the month after? Yes. Obamacare insurance you sign up for today doesn’t start until January. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/533 "2013-10-04T04:28:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If people liked what they saw, they wouldn’t be holding back from signing up. If the gov’t hasn’t released figures, how do you know they’re holding back? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/534 "2013-10-04T04:29:34Z")
Because otherwise they’d want us to know. Wonkblog wanted to interview people who had signed up, couldn’t find anyone. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/535 "2013-10-04T04:41:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Because otherwise they’d want us to know. Wonkblog wanted to interview people who had signed up, couldn’t find anyone. Found one article on Wonkblog about the sign-ups, no mention of not finding anyone to interview. Do you really believe that out of 300 million, not one has signed up? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/536 "2013-10-04T04:43:23Z")
Of course not. I just think it’s a rare breed so far, and I don’t think participation is going to even come close to what they expect. It’s just not a good enough deal, and part of the reason for that is that they are requiring coverage for things people don’t need. That pushes up the cost. If they’d left those things out, they could have subsidized 100% of the cost for poorer young people. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/537 "2013-10-04T04:44:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Of course not. I just think it’s a rare breed so far, and I don’t think participation is going to even come close to what they expect. It’s just not a good enough deal, and part of the reason for that is that they are requiring coverage for things people don’t need. That pushes up the cost. If they’d left those things out, they could have subsidized 100% of the cost for poorer young people. What things are they covering that aren’t needed? And who are _you_ to decide what others need or don’t need? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/538 "2013-10-04T04:45:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If people liked what they saw, they wouldn’t be holding back from signing up. What, people don’t need insurance today, they can wait till next month or the month after? What, do the reports of delays and problems with access were a lie? > [@adaher](#): > > What is actually happening is that a lot of young people are seeing that they’ll have $100-$200 less per month to spend on what they actually want to spend money on and are declining. No, that is called “moving the goal posts” you claimed that people were not signing up, that is all, not just the young. And once again you do not know the numbers, it is still an argument from ignorance. And your quip here is blissfully ignoring the delays and troubles that are causing many to wait as the systems are overwhelmed, as pointed before, the delays are more likely to be forgotten later once the bugs are dealt with. > **[Desperate To Find Failure, Fox Cherry-Picks Obamacare Enrollment Data](https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-friends/desperate-find-failure-fox-cherry-picks-obamacare-enrollment-data)** > [@](#): > > But thousands of people in other parts of the country have successfully signed up for health coverage through the online marketplaces, and many more have successfully created accounts with which they can enroll at later dates. The Huffington Post reported: > > ``` > Kentucky's health insurance exchange, Kynect, enrolled almost 3,000 households into health coverage by 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time Wednesday, and nearly 110,000 people viewed more than 1.6 million pages on the website, Gov. Steve Beshear (D) announced in a press release. Kynect had started almost 10,800 applications and completed more than 6,900 of them, according to the press release. > > Rhode Island's Health Source RI already has signed up some consumers, Kaiser Health News reported Wednesday, and Connecticut's Access Health CT reported enrollments Tuesday. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/539 "2013-10-04T04:46:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Of course not. I just think it’s a rare breed so far, and I don’t think participation is going to even come close to what they expect. So, your gut tells you, basically ? Good to know. It does boast a great predictive track record, after all ;). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/540 "2013-10-04T04:50:24Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > So, your gut tells you, basically ? Good to know. It does boast a great predictive track record, after all ;). And you know what comes out of the gut? Yeah, that. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/541 "2013-10-04T04:55:54Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Found one article on Wonkblog about the sign-ups, no mention of not finding anyone to interview. Do you really believe that out of 300 million, not one has signed up? [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/03/the-white-house-says-people-have-bought-obamacare-we-havent-met-them-quite-yet/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/03/the-white-house-says-people-have-bought-obamacare-we-havent-met-them-quite-yet/) If you have purchased health coverage on the federal government’s new Obamacare marketplace, about a dozen or so reporters would like to speak with you. We promise we won’t take up too much of your time! We just need to find you first. The federal government has said that somewhere out in this vast country of 313 million people, where 48 million lack insurance coverage, someone has managed to sign up for health insurance on the federally-run marketplaces. As of yet, we haven’t tracked this person - or these people - down. This is not for lack of effort. Reporters here at The Washington Post and at other publications have been on the hunt for this mythical creature. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=28)