# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/682 "2013-10-26T18:39:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I did and your cite does not have a firm answer. I do not need to correct things I don’t know need correcting. Truthiness feelings in action. Remember, it is the $600+ the value that has less support than the around $130 million for the site and the around 350 million for the overall project, As the more reliable numbers from more reliable sources are close, it is the right wing media sources the ones that need to be corrected. Funny thing that a demand for that media to be better \*\*never \*\*seems to come from the ones that were made to look foolish for repeating them in a forum. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/683 "2013-10-26T22:41:23Z")
Meanwhile, in an effort that isn’t getting nearly enough attention, [Vermont continues to charge forward on its single-payer plan.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/26/vermont-health-care_n_4166221.html) Let me go ahead and predict right now that there is going to be a MASSIVE flood of Americans into VT when that state gets this program off the ground. Following that, it’ll probably be replicated by other blue states like California, Minnesota, New York, etc. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/684 "2013-10-27T00:57:09Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > Meanwhile, in an effort that isn’t getting nearly enough attention, [Vermont continues to charge forward on its single-payer plan.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/26/vermont-health-care_n_4166221.html) > > Let me go ahead and predict right now that there is going to be a MASSIVE flood of Americans into VT when that state gets this program off the ground. Following that, it’ll probably be replicated by other blue states like California, Minnesota, New York, etc. Or even by cities. [Healthy San Francisco](http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Healthy-S-F-might-sicken-Tea-Partiers-4929116.php) is a unique and humane approach. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/685 "2013-10-27T03:00:49Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Preventative care and maternity care both reduce long-term costs. If you\* had “insurance” with no preventative care and didn’t get any on your own, you tended to use emergency/emergent care services more than necessary. In the long run, this cost all of us more. I think some of these price increases we’re seeing are due to uncertainty and will adjust as the actuarial situation becomes better defined. There’s still the 80% rule for insurers to deal with after all. > > \*Generic you - not you specifically. Studies are conflicting on whether preventive care reduces costs. [http://healthcarecostmonitor.thehastingscenter.org/louiserussell/a-persistent-myth/](http://healthcarecostmonitor.thehastingscenter.org/louiserussell/a-persistent-myth/) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/686 "2013-10-27T03:05:50Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > Meanwhile, in an effort that isn’t getting nearly enough attention, [Vermont continues to charge forward on its single-payer plan.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/26/vermont-health-care_n_4166221.html) > > Let me go ahead and predict right now that there is going to be a MASSIVE flood of Americans into VT when that state gets this program off the ground. Following that, it’ll probably be replicated by other blue states like California, Minnesota, New York, etc. Well, right now Vermont has about half the people of neighboring New Hampshire. Let me go ahead and predict that a lot of Vermonters move just 50 miles to reduce their taxes and still benefit from ACA. If Vermont’s population falls enough, can New Hampshire just annex it? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/687 "2013-10-27T03:14:10Z")
Give Vermont credit though, this is hardcore stuff: > [@](#): > > In such a setting, Vermont’s plan looks more and more like an anomaly. It combines universal coverage with new cost controls in an effort to move away from a system in which the more procedures doctors and hospitals perform, the more they get paid, to one in which providers have a set budget to care for a set number of patients. [http://www.telegram.com/article/20131026/NEWS/310269800/1052/RSS01&source=rss](http://www.telegram.com/article/20131026/NEWS/310269800/1052/RSS01&source=rss) Thats an awesome way to control costs. And people can still buy private insurance so they get better care. We should put Medicare on a fixed budget as well if that works. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/688 "2013-10-27T03:18:27Z")
Oh, and GIGO, you were mentioning the NJ Senate election. Why is it that Booker underperformed OBama’s performance, and Menendez’s performance, running against a hardcore Tea Partier? Is he really that weak, or is that a larger problem with Democrats? Could it be that ACA is dragging Democrats down? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/689 "2013-10-27T03:42:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Oh, and GIGO, you were mentioning the NJ Senate election. Why is it that Booker underperformed OBama’s performance, and Menendez’s performance, running against a hardcore Tea Partier? Is he really that weak, or is that a larger problem with Democrats? Could it be that ACA is dragging Democrats down? Keep grasping at straws, Booker won by more than 10 percentage points. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/690 "2013-10-27T04:04:13Z")
Most unimpressive against a far right wing opponent in New Jersey. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/691 "2013-10-27T04:21:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Most unimpressive against a far right wing opponent in New Jersey. Still 10 points difference in a fight that also included the “best” arguments against the ACA. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/692 "2013-10-27T04:25:46Z")
And how do you think that same race would have played out in Virginia? Guess we’ll find out. The candidates are very similar, but we have a different electorate. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/693 "2013-10-27T04:39:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And how do you think that same race would have played out in Virginia? Guess we’ll find out. The candidates are very similar, but we have a different electorate. Looking at the recent polls, It is very likely that the Cooch will go down in defeat at within 10 or 9 percentage points. Just like in New Jersey. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/694 "2013-10-27T05:32:01Z")
The polls say 7. And Booker underperformed the polling by 3 points, so call it 4. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/695 "2013-10-27T06:17:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The polls say 7. And Booker underperformed the polling by 3 points, so call it 4. Real Clear Politics Average is McAuliffe +9.7. The worst polls for McAuliffe has him at +7. Rasmussen has it at +17. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/696 "2013-10-27T06:24:31Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Real Clear Politics Average is McAuliffe +9.7. The worst polls for McAuliffe has him at +7. Rasmussen has it at +17. Yep, It was Real Clear Politics where I looked at, I guess adaher now thinks that they are skewed. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/697 "2013-10-27T06:52:51Z")
Rasmussen is an outlier. The other polls show a 7-9 point lead. And skewed polls do happen. The Booker-Lonegan polls were skewed by 3 points. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/698 "2013-10-27T07:00:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Rasmussen is an outlier. The other polls show a 7-9 point lead. And skewed polls do happen. The Booker-Lonegan polls were skewed by 3 points. Without Rasmussen, RCP has it at McAuliffe +8.2, not seven. Booker’s polling was more likely due to the [Bradley Effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect) than due to biased polling. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/699 "2013-10-27T07:42:32Z")
The Virginia race has another effect: strong third party. Third parties usually underperform their polling. I mean, it would be awesome if Sarvis actually got 10%, but if he gets 5%,where do those voters go? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/700 "2013-10-27T12:38:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I mean, it would be awesome if Sarvis actually got 10%, but if he gets 5%,where do those voters go? Most of them probably stay home. I’m not sure why you’re so intent on unskewing the VA polls, but your track record (and the track record of other unskewers) on this is pathetic. No, the polls are probably pretty close to the truth. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/701 "2013-10-28T11:04:50Z")
Of course, it wouldn’t be a news day reporting on a scandal without yet another “Obama didn’t know” defense: > **[NSA denies it told Obama about spying | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2013/10/28/lok-boulden-germany-us-spying.cnn)** > > The NSA is denying German media reports that in 2010, Pres. Obama knew that Angela Merkel’s phone was being monitored. You’d almost think the entire federal government has been beyond the control of our elected officials for the last five years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=36)