# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/61 "2013-04-14T18:04:01Z")
> [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > And IMNAAHO we should not be giving adults citizenship on everything at 18 EXCEPT alcohol, but we do and have thousands of former teenagers alive because of that policy. > > Note that kids don’t _have_ to be on their parents’ policy, but they can be. If they happen to get jobs with good benefits, they can cover themselves at any time. The change in PPACA gives me the chance to keep paying my full premiums for health insurance to cover myself and my kids as I did before they turn 18. Even if my kids are out of school, even if they are flipping burgers for a “living”. The alternative is my kids wait until their asthma flares up and they go to an ER, where a freaking aspirin costs more than they’d make in a week.Raising the eligibility to 26 is a great thing! I think they still have to be my dependents, so the apron strings will be cut at some point. But the point you are missing is that it isn’t free. Nothing is free in the world. By covering 25 year old “children” other policy holders will be subsidizing the cost of providing health insurance by increasing premiums across the board. And while it is great for your family, I don’t think it is good policy to mandate yet another government redistribution program to pay for people who are in every way, shape, and form, grown adults. Remember, this isn’t means tested so you couldn’t even justify it as a welfare program. Hard working people might be paying for John D. Rockefeller XI, age 24, because it saves him $11/mo to be on Dad’s plan instead of the plan where he works and has insurance fully available to him. The fact that people in their early 20s cannot get jobs that offer health insurance is the problem that needs corrected. Don’t put a bandage on it that let’s them stay on Mom and Dad’s insurance. Do something to control the costs so that businesses can afford to offer their employees health insurance at reasonable rates. Frankly, if we just quit referring to it as “insurance” it would help frame the debate better. You can’t insure against known quantities. You can’t “insure” against a woman needing birth control. Like with cars, we don’t insure against gasoline usage, oil changes, and new tires. We all need those and pay out of pocket. Just like regular doctor visits, birth control, and common medications. Let the market negotiate rates for those. Insure against unknowns like cancer and heart disease. Pool the risk for those type of illnesses. The one-sized fits all under the umbrella of “health care” is too broad of a thing to be governed by the same set of rules. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/62 "2013-04-15T01:11:33Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Like with cars, we don’t insure against gasoline usage, oil changes, and new tires. We all need those and pay out of pocket. Just like regular doctor visits, birth control, and common medications. Let the market negotiate rates for those. > > Insure against unknowns like cancer and heart disease. Pool the risk for those type of illnesses. The one-sized fits all under the umbrella of “health care” is too broad of a thing to be governed by the same set of rules. We also don’t insure for the need for roads for our cars, we share the cost of those regardless. Although I have the insurance you describe (high deductible catastrophic coverage). I can’t see how the free market helps me- either I pay a higher price than those with regular insurance or when I try to shop for the best price, I can’t get a simple answer from the provider. Where in the world has ‘free market’ health care really succeeded? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/63 "2013-04-15T02:40:19Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > But the point you are missing is that it isn’t free. Nothing is free in the world. By covering 25 year old “children” other policy holders will be subsidizing the cost of providing health insurance by increasing premiums across the board. And while it is great for your family, I don’t think it is good policy to mandate yet another government redistribution program to pay for people who are in every way, shape, and form, grown adults. > > Remember, this isn’t means tested so you couldn’t even justify it as a welfare program. Hard working people might be paying for John D. Rockefeller XI, age 24, because it saves him $11/mo to be on Dad’s plan instead of the plan where he works and has insurance fully available to him. > > The fact that people in their early 20s cannot get jobs that offer health insurance is the problem that needs corrected. Don’t put a bandage on it that let’s them stay on Mom and Dad’s insurance. Do something to control the costs so that businesses can afford to offer their employees health insurance at reasonable rates. > > Frankly, if we just quit referring to it as “insurance” it would help frame the debate better. You can’t insure against known quantities. You can’t “insure” against a woman needing birth control. > > Like with cars, we don’t insure against gasoline usage, oil changes, and new tires. We all need those and pay out of pocket. Just like regular doctor visits, birth control, and common medications. Let the market negotiate rates for those. > > Insure against unknowns like cancer and heart disease. Pool the risk for those type of illnesses. The one-sized fits all under the umbrella of “health care” is too broad of a thing to be governed by the same set of rules. I never said it was free. It’s cheap enough that adding 18-26 year olds is unlikely to make a significant difference in premiums I pay for family coverage. You don’t like extending childhood in theory? Fine. Does your company hire fresh high school grads? Mine requires a college degree at a minimum, and usually looks for an advanced degree and certifications requiring 3-5 years’ experience. Whether you like it or not - I sure don’t - “childhood” these days extends well into the 20s. In the time it takes to fix that problem a lot of current 20 somethings will die of old age. In any case, if we want to reform how health care is paid for in the US we can’t let the theoretical “perfect” be the enemy of “good enough to try out”. Health care was on an unsustainable path. Within 20 years the health care market would have been 350 million people going to ERs when they were on death’s door, and Bill Gates. Unsustainable, inefficient, and unworthy of an industrialized nation. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/64 "2013-04-15T13:53:50Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > But the point you are missing is that it isn’t free. Nothing is free in the world. By covering 25 year old “children” other policy holders will be subsidizing the cost of providing health insurance by increasing premiums across the board. How is it going to increase premiums across the board? It will increase premiums for family coverage, and that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/65 "2013-04-17T14:55:59Z")
Another bit of an update: [Arkansas lawmakers pass Medicaid expansion compromise](http://news.yahoo.com/arkansas-lawmakers-approve-health-plan-seen-compromise-obama-163309082.html) I’ve been following this for a while. Basically, lawmakers in Arkansas have been juggling how to accept the Medicaid expansion while still decrying the ACA. Their solution? The compromise allows the state to spend Medicaid expansion dollars on private health insurance for individuals who would have otherwise qualified for the program as it was originally intended. I remember reading that when Arkansas’s Dem. governor first floated the idea to the Obama administration, nobody in his state seriously expected HHS to go along with it; now that it’s been given (provisional) approval, a whole slew of conservative states are considering a similar pathway. The rub with this, of course, is that nobody is entirely sure how this idea will work. The private insurance has to have comparable benefits to what beneficiaries would have otherwise received in traditional Medicaid; because private plans aren’t typically as generous as Medicaid, it’ll be interesting to see the kinds of policies that are ultimately phased in. That’s my understanding of the situation anyway. If this works in Arkansas, then expect a whole bunch of red southern states to go down a similar path. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/66 "2013-04-17T15:14:31Z")
Didn’t Rick Scott of Florida want to let private insurers [del]get their mitts on[/del] [del]profit from [/del] administer Medicaid funds too? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/67 "2013-04-17T17:07:10Z")
No. Scott was just interested in a [del]meaningless waste of taxpayer dollars[/del] principled stand against the eeeevil PPACA. Nobody is really sure how the state exchanges will work, either, so I don’t think the public/private Medicaid expansion is necessarily doomed on those grounds. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/68 "2013-04-22T05:48:37Z")
Hope this isn’t the wrong place to ask. I’m curious about something, especially with all the state Medicaid issues going on. If the ACA says that you are supposed to be covered by Medicaid, but your state refuses to cover you, how are you supposed to comply and what is the point? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/69 "2013-04-22T06:21:31Z")
That’s unclear at this point. The administration believes you’d then be eligible for subsidies to buy private insurance on the exchange, but the text of the law says you get nothing. However, if you are eligible for Medicaid then you probably are exempt from the mandate anyway. But even if you are subject to it, enforcement is illegal beyond seizing your income tax refund. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/70 "2013-04-23T02:58:41Z")
First of all, I’m going to say that the earliest reference I’ve seen to nationalized health care was a statement by FDR in 1932, and I don’t see the issue being resolved 80 years from now either. :rolleyes: :o And second of all, the ACA is NOT a Constitutional amendment, no matter what some people seem to think. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/71 "2013-04-23T13:42:48Z")
And Teddy Roosevelt had it in his 1916 campaign platform. But never mind, this bill was still “rushed through”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/72 "2013-04-23T14:07:15Z")
They attempted to rush it through. Debating the broad outlines of an issue for a century does not give license to put anything related to it in a bill and avoid messy hearings and public debate. For example, the medical device tax and individual mandate were far from settled issues, and the likely effect of ACA on people’s current insurance was not a settled issue either, despite the President’s dishonest assurances. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/73 "2013-04-23T14:08:52Z")
There were four months of Congressional debate on the components of the bill. How long did you want them to talk it over for? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/74 "2013-04-23T14:21:14Z")
That was because the GOP slowed things down. They wanted it done in July. And what happened between March and July wasn’t debate, it was negotiations behind the scenes with various interest groups(insurance companies, drug companies, the AARP, the AMA…). Much like the immigration bill being done now, there has been no debate yet over an actual bill, just behind the scenes negotiations between 8 Senators, business, and labor. By July there were actual bills to debate, and that took until March 2010. The President wanted the bill on his desk the same month they were drafted. A bit quick for such a hugely significant reform. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/75 "2013-04-23T14:23:45Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And Teddy Roosevelt had it in his 1916 campaign platform. But never mind, this bill was still “rushed through”. Even earlier, it was 1912. It was shouted down as “socialism”, I guess because it was modeled after the German system created by that noted socialist Otto Von Bismark 😃 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/76 "2013-04-23T15:00:47Z")
Breaking: the primary Senate architect of Obamacare who predicted a “train wreck” will not stand for reelection: > **[Baucus, Powerful Montana Democrat, Will Leave Senate (Published 2013)](https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/24/us/politics/baucus-wont-seek-re-election-to-senate.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0)** > > Senator Max Baucus, the chairman of the Finance Committee, will leave his seat after 36 years, becoming the sixth Senate Democrat to depart in the 2014 elections. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/77 "2013-04-23T15:08:36Z")
Stand? What is he, British? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/78 "2013-04-23T15:28:48Z")
(Right, 1912, my bad) If Baucus’ departure means Brian Schweitzer in the Senate, this is a \*good \*thing. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/79 "2013-04-23T16:21:59Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > (Right, 1912, my bad) > > If Baucus’ departure means Brian Schweitzer in the Senate, this is a \*good \*thing. I’m not going to derail my thread, but I have to chime in on this: Your statement is very, very true. I really, really want Mr. Schweitzer to run for President, and if he becomes a Senator then he’ll have even more credibility to actually go for the nomination. Plus, if he decides to run for Senate at all then he’s a likely shoe-in for the spot anyway. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/80 "2013-04-24T01:40:47Z")
I agree with that too. Schweitzer’s a good man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=5)