# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/962 "2014-01-02T21:49:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Let’s take your (cherry-picked) example. How about $50K? And the plan has $6500 deductible. From looking at the details for that plan, you pay everything, doctor visits, drugs, everything - until you reach $6500. Then the plan kicks in. So - if you’re moderately in need for health services (which a lot 60-year-olds do) you will be on the hook for $11.5K/year. Do you think that’s “affordable” for someone earning $50K/year? No, you didn’t check the plan details. Preventative visits, checkups, and many other items are included. Please check [pages 2-5](http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2103881) of the Plan details to see what services are included. Everything you mentioned is, in fact, covered and free of out-of-pocket charges. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/963 "2014-01-02T21:51:50Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So $50K is a regular occurrence. As I asked, is $11.5K on a $50K salary “affordable”? Or would you say that’s “shockingly expensive”? Boy, you’re not listening, are you? A person who meets your demographics in DeKalb County, GA can buy a $429/month bronze plan. That’s $5,148/year, not $11.5k. They can buy a much better Platinum plan for $626/month, or $7,512/year. As a percentage term, this is about 10-13% of income, which can be argued as high. But I don’t know where your $11.5k figure comes from as it isn’t listed in the plans I’m viewing: “Health plans for one individual, age 60, living in De Kalb County, GA. Based on your household size and income, you do not appear to qualify for help paying for coverage.” ($50k income, not eligible for assistance.) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/964 "2014-01-02T21:59:12Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > No, you didn’t check the plan details. Preventative visits, checkups, and many other items are included. Please check [pages 2-5](http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2103881) of the Plan details to see what services are included. Everything you mentioned is, in fact, covered and free of out-of-pocket charges. I see. The “No Charge after Deductible” on the first page was misleading. Ok - so the person’s out of pocket costs may be $1-2K or so if they want to see some people that are not in network (and as I pointed out before, one way these companies make these premiums lower is by narrowing networks by up to 50-70% from regular insurance policies). That’s still around 14% of income. ACA “standard” of affordability is 9% of income. So - not “affordable”. And that’s in the county that you picked where the premiums are something like 30-40% lower than in other counties. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/965 "2014-01-02T22:02:11Z")
Again, this person is of your rigged demographic, of which (as I noted) may comprise as many as 2-5 million people across the country, or .6% - 1.4% of the total US population, most of whom already have qualified plans. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/966 "2014-01-02T22:04:22Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Again, this person is of your rigged demographic, of which (as I noted) may comprise as many as 2-5 million people across the country, or .6% - 1.4% of the total US population. And if a million people suffer, who cares. As long as you got your government handout (on their backs). ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/967 "2014-01-02T22:08:02Z")
What do you care about suffering? _You’re_ the one arguing for a system that leaves 40+ million without health coverage and has bankrupted millions more. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/968 "2014-01-02T22:11:49Z")
By the way, I question the accuracy of that benefits page you posted. Here’s an example. This page > **[33602TX0420006a.pdf](https://www.bcbstx.com/pdf/sbc/33602TX0420006a.pdf)** > > 347.31 KB lists no charge for drugs, under any circumstances. Whereas the first page you look at says “No charge, after deductible”. Since this is a bronze plan, there is no way there is no charge for drugs, ever. Thus, I would say any “No charge” items on the PDF are the “No charge, after deductible” types. Which would certainly increase the costs quite a bit for that hypothetical 60-year-old. Probably to 20%-30% of his income. But hey, who cares, as long as \*\*JohnT \*\*gets his government handout. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/969 "2014-01-02T22:16:39Z")
If you question the cite, I got it off the [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) “Plan Details” link for the plan itself. Otoh, if you can’t notice that you’re comparing two different plans, then I don’t know what to say. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/970 "2014-01-02T22:24:52Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > If you question the cite, I got it off the [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) “Plan Details” link for the plan itself. Otoh, if you can’t notice that you’re comparing two different plans, then I don’t know what to say. The terminology is the same. It’s the same site and the same format of the page. There is no way the bronze plan would have “No Charge” for any drugs, ever. Which means that in that brochure, “No Charge” means “No Charge after Deductible”. Which is what the front page says, before you go to the PDF. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/971 "2014-01-02T22:26:07Z")
nm… ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/972 "2014-01-02T22:32:45Z")
> **[Preventive health services](https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/preventive-care-benefits/)** > > Most health plans must cover a set of preventive services like shots and screening tests at no cost to you. This includes Marketplace private insurance plans. > [@](#): > > All Marketplace plans and many other plans must cover the following list of preventive services without charging you a copayment or coinsurance. This is true even if you haven’t met your yearly deductible. This applies only when these services are delivered by a network provider. > > Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm one-time screening for men of specified ages who have ever smoked > > Alcohol Misuse screening and counseling > > Aspirin use to prevent cardiovascular disease for men and women of certain ages > > Blood Pressure screening for all adults > > Cholesterol screening for adults of certain ages or at higher risk > > Colorectal Cancer screening for adults over 50 > > Depression screening for adults > > Diabetes (Type 2) screening for adults with high blood pressure > > Diet counseling for adults at higher risk for chronic disease > > HIV screening for everyone ages 15 to 65, and other ages at increased risk > > Immunization vaccines for adults–doses, recommended ages, and recommended populations vary: > > … Hepatitis A > … Hepatitis B > … Herpes Zoster > … Human Papillomavirus > … Influenza (Flu Shot) > … Measles, Mumps, Rubella > … Meningococcal > … Pneumococcal > … Tetanus, Diphtheria, Pertussis > … Varicella > > Obesity screening and counseling for all adults > > Sexually Transmitted Infection (STI) prevention counseling for adults at higher risk > Syphilis screening for all adults at higher risk > > Tobacco Use screening for all adults and cessation interventions for tobacco users That’s for everybody, there are two more pages of additional services offered to women and children which are available through _all_ Exchange plans, even the one you’re looking at, Terr. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/973 "2014-01-02T22:52:51Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > That’s for everybody, there are two more pages of additional services offered to women and children which are available through _all_ Exchange plans, even the one you’re looking at, Terr. What does this have to do with charges for drugs? Or visits to a GP or a specialist that are not “preventive”? If you insist, I can call Blue Cross and clarify whether that hypothetical 60-year-old would have to pay full price for drugs and non-preventive doc visits until he fills his deductible. Would you believe me if I did? If you wouldn’t, why don’t you call them. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/974 "2014-01-03T14:18:12Z")
You don’t have to call BCBS. It says what it says on the documents and citations I provided, which came from [Healthcare.gov](http://Healthcare.gov). Let me repeat myself… The Link: [http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2103881](http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2103881) The Quote: “(Deductible)… Doesn’t apply to preventive care and prescription drugs” The Page #: 1, in the “Deductible” row, explaining how the deductible works. The Link: [http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2103881](http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2103881) The Quote: “If you need drugs to treat your illness or condition: Generic and brand-named drugs: No Charge (Retail), No Charge (Mail Order)” The Page #: 3, in the first row, explaining how the prescription drug coverage works. Please note that this is the plan _you_ chose for your hypothetical 60yo single male earning twice the average wage in Calhoun County, GA. Why you moved from Georgia to Texas in your arguments, I have no idea. But feel free to call. I’ll gladly await ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/975 "2014-01-03T14:26:07Z")
Btw, via Humana there’s a $600 plan for your guy living in Calhoun County, GA. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/976 "2014-01-03T15:05:09Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I said many people are forced to buy “shockingly expensive” plans under Obamacare. I proved it to you - from the horse’s mouth, on the [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) web site. You can close your eyes, ears and hum loudly - doesn’t change the facts. You didn’t prove “many.” That’s your wild, vague, out of the hat guess. Second, you didn’t compare it to what they paid BEFORE ACA, for either insurance or out-of-pocket medical expenses. I appreciate your desire to find facts, but you’re just not doing a good enough job of it. Your off the cuff hypotheticals aren’t a scientific study. Let’s wait for the professionals to do the analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/977 "2014-01-03T16:52:23Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > You don’t have to call BCBS. It says what it says on the documents and citations I provided, which came from [Healthcare.gov](http://Healthcare.gov). > > Let me repeat myself… > > The Link: [http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2103881](http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2103881) > The Quote: “(Deductible)… Doesn’t apply to preventive care and prescription drugs” > The Page #: 1, in the “Deductible” row, explaining how the deductible works. > > The Link: [http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2103881](http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2103881) > The Quote: “If you need drugs to treat your illness or condition: Generic and brand-named drugs: No Charge (Retail), No Charge (Mail Order)” > The Page #: 3, in the first row, explaining how the prescription drug coverage works. > > Please note that this is the plan _you_ chose for your hypothetical 60yo single male earning twice the average wage in Calhoun County, GA. Why you moved from Georgia to Texas in your arguments, I have no idea. > > But feel free to call. I’ll gladly await You are wrong. Here is the brochure for this plan: [http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2057913](http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2057913) For normal (non-preventive) doctor visits, and for prescription drugs it say, clearly: “This plan pays 100% **after you pay your deductible**.” And for prescription drugs, specifically and explicitly: “ **You pay** for each covered prescription fill or refill **until you’ve paid your deductible**.” Don’t know how to make it clearer for you. So - the first $6500 is the hypothetical 60-year-old’s responsibility. Which raises his costs of insurance to 20% to 30% of income in Calhoun county. And to 15%-20% in DeKalb. Shockingly expensive. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/978 "2014-01-03T17:29:28Z")
Why do you keep bringing up separate plans, Terr? Do you not know what you’re doing? Please note that you are comparing differing plans to find the one that has the (in your mind) worst cost/benefit balance, and saying “See, THIS is the one that matches my complaints!” Let me point it out to you: **In the original plan you cited, prescription drug coverage was included.** Congratulations on finding a plan where it is not included. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/979 "2014-01-03T17:35:18Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Why do you keep bringing up separate plans, Terr? It is the same EXACT plan that you cited in the post I quoted. To help you understand: This is what you cited: [http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2103881](http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2103881) This is what I cited: [http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2057913](http://apps.humana.com/marketing/documents.asp?file=2057913) Exactly the same plan. You are wrong and can’t admit it. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/980 "2014-01-03T18:51:06Z")
Some of the comments on this story have to be seen to be believed. [http://www.ijreview.com/2013/12/105176-alabama-mom-shares-devastating-experience-obamacare-open-letter-american-people/?fb\_comment\_id=fbc\_661813137173721\_6728170\_662015533820148#f284da126](http://www.ijreview.com/2013/12/105176-alabama-mom-shares-devastating-experience-obamacare-open-letter-american-people/?fb_comment_id=fbc_661813137173721_6728170_662015533820148#f284da126) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/981 "2014-01-03T20:07:23Z")
My apologies, Terr, you are correct. I think your document makes it clearer than mine, which has a single sentence explaining how pages 2-5 relate to the overall plan: “See the chart starting on page 2 for how much you pay for covered services after you meet the deductible.” Again, my apologies. The fact that this person rarely or doesn’t exist in the counties you mentioned still stands, however. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=50)