# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1062 "2014-01-08T18:35:42Z")
> **[Consumers say they're shelling out more for health insurance](https://www.cnbc.com/2014/01/08/consumers-say-they-are-paying-more-for-health-insurance.html)** > > Support for Obamacare has plummeted and out-of-pocket health insurance costs are increasing for many people, a new survey says. The survey also found that people, by a 2-to-1 margin, felt Obamacare had had a more negative than positive impact on their own, individual health care. The poll questioned 1,005 adults, and had a margin of error of 3.6 percentage points. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1063 "2014-01-13T04:57:07Z")
Cancellation notices for small business policies will be going out in October. A month before the election. Anyone want to bet that the administration delays the employer mandate six months to a year again to get past the election? > **[Second wave of health-insurance cancellations affects small businesses](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/second-wave-of-health-insurance-disruption-affects-small-businesses/2014/01/11/dc2f7404-6ffe-11e3-a523-fe73f0ff6b8d_story.html)** > > Millions of small businesses may have to switch health insurance plans to meet law’s tougher standards. Also, to satisfy DMC, the early data does show that the signups trend towards the sick and old: [http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/12/us-usa-healthcare-enrollment-idUSBREA0B07Y20140112](http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/12/us-usa-healthcare-enrollment-idUSBREA0B07Y20140112) ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1064 "2014-01-14T00:01:26Z")
Another day, another news [article](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/obamacare-enrollment-demographic-breakdown). This time reporting that just enough young people have signed up for coverage by year end - and more are expected in the remaining 3 months. > [@](#): > > For the first time Monday, the Obama administration released demographic data about the 2.2 million who have enrolled in private coverage through [HealthCare.gov](http://HealthCare.gov) and its state counterparts. The top finding: 24 percent of them are between ages 18 and 34. > > \ > > Prior to [HealthCare.gov](http://HealthCare.gov)’s Oct. 1 launch, the Obama administration said it was aiming for close to 40 percent of enrollees to be between 18 and 34. So the law certainly isn’t hitting its mark yet. But outside experts said there’s reason to be optimistic that the ratio will improve during the last three months of open enrollment – and even if it doesn’t strike a perfect balance, the law should be fine. > > \ > > The Kaiser Family Foundation also released a report last month that concluded if 25 percent of the enrollment pool were young people, the resulting premium increase might be only 1 to 2 percent, not enough to fatally undermine the law’s actuarial base. > > “I see no signs at this point of a feared premium ‘death spiral.’ The insurance market will be stable with an enrollment mix like this,” Larry Levitt, senior vice president at the Kaiser Family Foundation, told TPM after seeing the new numbers. “But heightened outreach to young people, and even more importantly healthy people, will help to keep premiums down.” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1065 "2014-01-14T00:33:15Z")
If the law will be fine with only voluntary signups, then the mandate can be dispensed with. Good news. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1066 "2014-01-14T01:20:36Z")
90% of Congressional staffers don’t have a very high opinion of ACA: > **[Survey: Obamacare worries Hill aides](https://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/obamacare-hill-aides-poll-102094)** > > Ninety percent of staffers surveyed say they're concerned about benefit changes. Seems like it’s quite the imposition on them. I’m sure we can all agree that Congress and their staffs should live with the laws they pass, so enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1067 "2014-01-14T02:19:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > 90% of Congressional staffers don’t have a very high opinion of ACA: > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/obamacare-hill-aides-poll-102094.html](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/obamacare-hill-aides-poll-102094.html) > > Seems like it’s quite the imposition on them. I’m sure we can all agree that Congress and their staffs should live with the laws they pass, so enjoy. Some great pearls from that one: Ninety percent of staffers surveyed for a report released Monday by the Congressional Management Foundation said they are concerned about benefit changes under the health care law, while 86 percent are anxious about the financial hit and 79 percent cited worries to access. (People keep telling me that the benefits are great under ACA - way better than under "old insurance. And of course access is great too, right? When I mentioned hugely narrowed networks, I was shouted down as an alarmist) 79 percent said it was likely that the health care changes could contribute to staff exits. Fifty-two percent of those who responded worked in a Democratic office, while 48 percent were from GOP offices. Those fifty-two percent shoulda talked to their bosses about it before they passed the law, shouldn’t they have? Of course, they probably didn’t know what was being passed, and neither did their bosses. “With the changes in health care this year, even with [the] subsidy from Congress, my insurance will more than double with the deductible more than doubling as well,” one aide wrote in the survey. “That is for 3 people. How is this affordable? The entire staff is in this same position.”Probably a liar, right? Only a liar can say that the new and improved Obamacare policies are not affordable. Or maybe he had “crappy insurance” before (yeah, right) and now he is paying more for much better insurance? “The move by some members to eliminate the employer contribution has also not been well-received,” one staffer said in the Congressional Management Foundation survey. “Everyone felt as if we were pawns in this political argument.”I guess being treated like the “hoi polloi” doesn’t sit well with the ruling classes, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1068 "2014-01-14T02:41:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > 79 percent said it was likely that the health care changes could contribute to staff exits. Fifty-two percent of those who responded worked in a Democratic office, while 48 percent were from GOP offices. > Those fifty-two percent shoulda talked to their bosses about it before they passed the law, shouldn’t they have? Of course, they probably didn’t know what was being passed, and neither did their bosses. This is a gem. Thank you. I’m going to have this framed and I’ll display it whenever appropriate, like when you claim to understand statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1069 "2014-01-14T05:03:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Some great pearls from that one: > > Ninety percent of staffers surveyed for a report released Monday by the Congressional Management Foundation said they are concerned about benefit changes under the health care law, while 86 percent are anxious about the financial hit and 79 percent cited worries to access. > > (People keep telling me that the benefits are great under ACA - way better than under "old insurance. And of course access is great too, right? When I mentioned hugely narrowed networks, I was shouted down as an alarmist) Congressional staffers used to be under the best healthcare in the country, the Federal Government system. Unlike the uninsured and the folks with junk insurance. So it is entirely possible that they will end up with plans that are worse than what they had. But that is because the system was not set up to handle people that had good insurance and were forced to quit it, it was designed to get insurance to people with none or with substandard policies. And they have a right to be worried about the financial hit, because the Republicans that forced them to be on the plans are now trying to raise the costs they have to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1070 "2014-01-14T05:22:57Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > And they have a right to be worried about the financial hit, because the Republicans that forced them to be on the plans are now trying to raise the costs they have to pay. You mean the same costs the constituents in their districts/states pay, right? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1071 "2014-01-14T13:08:15Z")
Wait a minute, it’s the best insurance, yet cheaper? Economics 101 fail. Actually, that goes for 90% of the pro-ACA arguments. Supposedly ACA is bringing Americans better insurance at lower cost with networks just as large as before. Makes me wonder who in their imaginary world is paying for this miracle. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1072 "2014-01-14T15:14:27Z")
More participants = more revenue. Economics 101, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1073 "2014-01-14T15:18:12Z")
Only if you assume the participants won’t be using much of their insurance. Which was the plan, but isn’t working out yet. Nor have insurers priced for it, since they can’t be sure it will happen. Oh wait, forgot, the insurance is cheap and better than what most people had before. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1074 "2014-01-14T15:26:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Only if you assume the participants won’t be using much of their insurance. Which was the plan, but isn’t working out yet. Nor have insurers priced for it, since they can’t be sure it will happen. That’s a pretty serious death spiral you envision. Care to predict when that time bomb will detonate? And will it be loud enough for anyone outside your bubble to hear it? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1075 "2014-01-14T15:32:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Only if you assume the participants won’t be using much of their insurance. Which was the plan, but isn’t working out yet. You have data from the last 14 days that show how much the new younger participants have been using their new insurance? Really? > [@](#): > > Nor have insurers priced for it, since they can’t be sure it will happen. You’re not giving them much credit for having decent actuaries, are you? Well, who else would? > [@](#): > > Oh wait, forgot, the insurance is cheap and better than what most people had before. Never mind. For millions, yes, that’s true. As you know. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1076 "2014-01-14T15:56:10Z")
Cool. A chance to issue a Mapcase Law. Any substantial change, no matter how well-intentioned or well-wrought, will leave some people worse off. Want to know why change is fiercely resisted? This. The people who will be hurt can and will complain and try to halt the changes. Those who dislike the change for any reason can always find a few individuals demonstrably hurt. Those who dislike change, or hate it because their enemies are behind it, can always cherrypick justification for why change is bad. We’re going to go through this with self-driving cars. Someone, somewhere, will die as a result of a malfunction. It will dominate the news cycle and get people screaming endlessly. Yet while that screaming is going on, a much, much large number of lives which otherwise would have been lost will go on without ever knowing their fate. Affordable Care has the advantage of being able to show individuals with visibly positive outcomes. I’d say the net is unmistakeably positive, but it will be years before the system settles enough to spread that understanding throughout society. So the nay-sayers have the advantage that some change is indeed bad, or has a net negative effect. A Mapcase Law corollary: If you argue against all change, you will be right sometimes and you’ll always remember that. Remember that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1077 "2014-01-14T16:33:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That’s a pretty serious death spiral you envision. Care to predict when that time bomb will detonate? And will it be loud enough for anyone outside your bubble to hear it? There won’t be a death spiral. The risk corridors ensure that. The bad stuff has already happened. People don’t like the product and aren’t buying it. So now a decision has to be made: drop the mandate or enforce it. And then see how that goes in the next two elections. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1078 "2014-01-14T16:38:20Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Cool. A chance to issue a Mapcase Law. Nothing new: \*“Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome.” \* - Samuel Johnson “People aren’t buying it”, you say, **adaher**? [So far, we’re up to 2.2 million](http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/aca-enrollment-reaches-22-million). And counting. How are you coming with that data on how increased enrollment isn’t working out? IOW, you got a cite for anything you say? Any at all? For even once? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1079 "2014-01-14T16:47:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Liberal Democrats are 20% of Americans, and tend to isolate themselves, sticking to people of likeminded views. > > The evidence? Liberals think they speak for the masses, yet don’t realize just how tiny a minority they are. You can say the exact same thing about rightwingers too. In other words, it’s a useless comment. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1080 "2014-01-14T16:49:46Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > Congressional staffers used to be under the best healthcare in the country, the Federal Government system. Unlike the uninsured and the folks with junk insurance. So it is entirely possible that they will end up with plans that are worse than what they had. But that is because the system was not set up to handle people that had good insurance and were forced to quit it, it was designed to get insurance to people with none or with substandard policies. Exactly. Staff are political pawns in this. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1081 "2014-01-14T17:00:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Liberals think they speak for the masses, yet don’t realize just how tiny a minority they are. Do you know what elections are, either? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=55)