# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1162 "2014-01-16T02:34:20Z")
Thank you, **Exapno Mapcase**!! As far as the phrase “death panel” only being repeated by the left wing, there’s this: [http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/08/13/conservative-media-death-panels-lie-returns-in/195381](http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/08/13/conservative-media-death-panels-lie-returns-in/195381) I would sarcastically say “Continue, [del]Governor Romney[/del] **adaher** ” again, but **Fear Itself** ’s point stands. More politely, when you make extraordinary claims, you need extraordinary evidence to support your claims. Take a moment out of your busy day and Google something. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1163 "2014-01-16T02:41:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You cannot even compare an isolated statement from Sarah Palin to a campaign of propaganda from the President of the United States. > > That isolated statement was repeated again and again by liberals. It’s even dishonest to try to portray it as part of the campaign against the law, because it was used 90% of the time by the left to discredit opposition, rather than by the right to actually try to convince people there were death panels. I’m not comparing anything to anything. I’m making a direct statement that you pulled nonsense of your ass and won’t cop to it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1164 "2014-01-16T03:00:34Z")
> [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > Thank you, **Exapno Mapcase**!! As far as the phrase “death panel” only being repeated by the left wing, there’s this: [Conservative Media "Death Panels" Lie Returns In Full Force | Media Matters for America](http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/08/13/conservative-media-death-panels-lie-returns-in/195381) > > I would sarcastically say “Continue, [del]Governor Romney[/del] **adaher** ” again, but **Fear Itself** ’s point stands. Wow. Even I didn’t think they were still going back to that well so recently. That deserves some highlights: > [@](#): > > Fox’s Sarah Palin: **“Of Course There Are Death Panels” In “Evil” Obamacare.** 8/10/13 > > [Breitbart.com](http://Breitbart.com)’s John Nolte: **Death Panels** \*\*“Are Already A Part Of Obamacare.” \*\* 8/10/13 > > Fox’s Marc Siegel: \*\*IPAB Is \*\ ***“A Death Panel, It’s A Rationing Board.”** 8/6/13 > > Fox’s Eric Bolling: **IPAB Decides** \*\*“What Medical Treatment I’m Going To Be Able To Get.” \*\*8/6/13 > > Rush Limbaugh:\*\* “Death Panels” Will Decide “Who Gets What, Who Gets Paid For And Who Doesn’t.” \*\*8/1/13 > > Fox’s Sean Hannity: \*\*“Obamacare Death Panels Are In Fact Alive And Well.” \*\*7/30/13 > > **Fox’s Cavuto Resuscitates “Death Panel” Myth** , March 7, 2013 > > **Hannity Joins Fox’s Politicization Of Girl’s Lung Transplant By Invoking “Death Panel Sebelius”** June 13, 2013 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1165 "2014-01-16T03:21:07Z")
I’m wondering now if a theory proposed before is valid: it proposes that the points of \*\*adaher \*\*are so twisted that they create such rifts in the time and space continuum that it compels the universe to go back or forwards in time to make sure reality turns out to be the exact opposite of the point he is trying to make. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1166 "2014-01-16T04:04:31Z")
Like I said, quit whining. Not only did the President lie directly to the American people in three big subjects of concern to them regarding this bill, but his supporters mostly joined in the lie. Ignorance was not being fought here while that was going on. Well, except to point out that there were no death panels. Very helpful. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1167 "2014-01-16T04:08:56Z")
Also, those statements refer to somethign specific: IPAB. You may not like the characterization of IPAB as a death panel, but it is entirely legitimate given that it is supposed to rule on what gets paid for and what doesn’t. While Democrats don’t call it a death panel, they are just as concerned about what IPAB means for Medicare beneficiaries. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1168 "2014-01-16T05:31:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Also, those statements refer to somethign specific: IPAB. You may not like the characterization of IPAB as a death panel, but it is entirely legitimate given that it is supposed to rule on what gets paid for and what doesn’t. While Democrats don’t call it a death panel, they are just as concerned about what IPAB means for Medicare beneficiaries. That is nice, but your point was that it was a lie from the left. In reality the right is glad to use it still, and no, there is usually no clarification about being specific when told to the peanut gallery. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1169 "2014-01-16T11:00:47Z")
And who was that woman who went onto **The Daily Show** with her binder to talk about death panels and other problems with the bill, resulting in The Most Embarrassing Interview in Television History? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1170 "2014-01-16T13:18:58Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And who was that woman who went onto **The Daily Show** with her binder to talk about death panels and other problems with the bill, resulting in The Most Embarrassing Interview in Television History? [Betsy McCaughey](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/21/betsy-mccaugheys-ideas-ca_n_264970.html) (Video at the end of the artice.) ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1171 "2014-01-16T13:55:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No. Because the LAW said that they are inadequate. You realize these two concepts are different, right? Of course. You realize the way congressional staff and the rest of America is being treated are different, right? > [@](#): > > Seriously, which portion of “However, the portion of small employers that say they’re likely to eliminate health benefits within five years jumped from 22% in 2012 to 31% in 2013.” was unclear to you? Or “[Disney will] simply stop offering health insurance to part-timers, matching moves made by Universal Orlando and SeaWorld”? That’s a different issue (but a legitimate complaint). The issue of people being dropped NOW for inadequate plans was mitigated by many being immediately picked back up by the same insurer with a plan that qualified. > [@](#): > > They won’t have access to it because the law says so. Same as millions of other Americans. Except of course Congress staffers consider themselves better than the hoi-polloi, so it’s terribly “unfair”. BULLSHIT. This is bullshit. I have explained why. Repeating yourself isn’t going to work. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1172 "2014-01-16T14:01:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > YThat isolated statement was repeated again and again by liberals. Sure - after it was repeated again and again by conservatives. > [@](#): > > It’s even dishonest to try to portray it as part of the campaign against the law, because it was used 90% of the time by the left to discredit opposition, rather than by the right to actually try to convince people there were death panels. This is utter bullshit. It’s your highly selective memory at work. Google it, and you’ll see frequent claims by other right-wing sources about “death panels” long after Palin’s. (I also found a Fox News story claiming that Mark Halperin of Time Magazine had said recently that death panels exist, followed by a story where he said he had actually said the opposite. Typical.) ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1173 "2014-01-16T14:12:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Also, those statements refer to somethign specific: IPAB. You may not like the characterization of IPAB as a death panel, but it is entirely legitimate given that it is supposed to rule on what gets paid for and what doesn’t. More bullshit. ALL insurance decides what gets paid for and what doesn’t. Of course it does. It only pays for treatments that are proven effective and medically necessary. If that’s a “death panel” then your private insurance company has a “death panel” too. So all you’ve done is cheapen the term used to describe a legitimate and necessary function of all insurance in your zeal to attack ACA. Also, FWIW, Palin’s original comment claimed that there was some panel somewhere that would judge the value of human beings, such as her child with Down Syndrome to which she referred in the comment, and decide whether they would get medical treatment. It was utter paranoid lunacy, and it was a reference to the living wills section of the ACA, not to the “rationing” section. (Oh, and in my research I saw references to Gingrich, Beck, Limbaugh and Michelle Malkin all repeating the death panel lie that you claim was only repeated by liberals). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1174 "2014-01-16T14:53:02Z")
I’ve heard what private insurance companies do as a lot worse than a mere “death panel”. If the public knew that part of health insurance reform was having the government say “no” the same way private companies do, it would never have passed. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1175 "2014-01-16T15:43:39Z")
With private insurance, you’ve got people in the way between you and your treatment who have as their job performance measure the amount of money they can save the company by disapproving what you need. IF you have the time and knowledge and a healthcare provider who will go to bat for you, they MIGHT change their mind. This is why we need the public option, so that the preservation of profit motivation doesn’t enter into the equation. Sarah Palin’s death panel nonsense was just the paranoid rantings of a stupid little twit. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1176 "2014-01-16T15:46:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’ve heard what private insurance companies do as a lot worse than a mere “death panel”. If the public knew that part of health insurance reform was having the government say “no” the same way private companies do, it would never have passed. Right. Because restrictions on healthcare based on finite resources are somehow likely to be worse than restrictions on healthcare incentivized by financial rewards for denying care? Anyone who believes that you can have everything you want for free is delusional. But a neutral body (the government) with no incentive to deny healthcare is far better than an interested party that has every reason to keep as many people as possible from getting treatment. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1177 "2014-01-16T15:47:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’ve heard what private insurance companies do as a lot worse than a mere “death panel”. If the public knew that part of health insurance reform was having the government say “no” the same way private companies do, it would never have passed. So now your story is that the public didn’t want what it already had in the private sector? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1178 "2014-01-16T15:49:06Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > This is why we need the public option, so that the preservation of profit motivation doesn’t enter into the equation. Just a side note - we can, and do, have private non-profit insurance now. It’s possible without a public option, though it’s not accessible to everyone. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1179 "2014-01-16T16:09:37Z")
You guys are forgetting something about the profit motive: those who seek profit are working for their customers. Bureaucrats work for the government and have no accountability whatsoever to patients. Just like a private company, it’s all about the bottom line. And the worst part is that if you are denied treatment by the government, the NY Times won’t write a sympathetic story about how mean they were to you. That only happens if the mean was is called Cigna or Blue Cross. Private companies can be pressured to change decisions and the government has protections and ways for you to appeal. When the government makes a decision, it’s final and no one’s going to give a damn about you. You are simply collateral damage in the war for social justice. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1180 "2014-01-16T16:13:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You guys are forgetting something about the profit motive: those who seek profit are working for their customers. NO. If I have Blue Cross (I don’t, but let’s use this name as a placeholder), they’ve already got my money. I’m not going to stop paying premiums because they screw me over, I probably have little choice. Maybe I can choose another company at next enrollment period, maybe I can’t. So Blue Cross has zero incentive to pay for my treatment, once they have my premium their goal is to keep as much of it as possible. “Working for their customers?” What color is the sky on your planet? They work for their shareholders. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1181 "2014-01-16T16:16:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Like I said, quit whining. Not only did the President lie directly to the American people in three big subjects of concern to them regarding this bill, but his supporters mostly joined in the lie. Ignorance was not being fought here while that was going on. Well, except to point out that there were no death panels. Very helpful. Yes, we get it. You’ve beaten that into us. It doesn’t matter what your words actually say. We’re not supposed to pay any attention to their meaning. They’re just placeholders for “liberals/Democrats are wrong”. Free range words, they roam across the internet unconfined by reality. They are organic, true-blue-American words, noble of heart and pure of soul, saluting the Boy Scouts and obeying every Boy Scout law, except of course for Trustworthy, which they are not. Obedient, though - man sakes alive, are they Obedient, at least to the right’s talking points. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=60)