# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1202 "2014-01-16T22:53:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s no more implausible than the idea that the government works for the good of the citizenry. > > Anyway, walk me through what happens when IPAB says that Medicare won’t pay for a treatment or drug. Not the political process, I already know how that works. Congress must vote specifically to veto the change, and they have to replace the Medicare changes with changes that save just as much money. We’re assuming that they can’t agree or can’t muster the votes to overturn IPAB. > > So what happens when the first elderly patient is denied the drug or treatment? Not much, because the IPAB can’t do [that](http://www.factcheck.org/2012/09/scary-medicare-claims/). Only sleazy ads claim that it can. > [@](#): > > Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, page 490: The proposal shall not include any recommendation to ration health care, raise revenues or Medicare beneficiary premiums under section 1818, 1818A, or 1839, increase Medicare beneficiary costsharing (including deductibles, coinsurance, and copayments), or otherwise restrict benefits or modify eligibility criteria. You do know that even pre-ACA Medicare already could deny a claim and does so fairly [often](http://sites.lawhelp.org/documents/447491web--Medicare%20appeals.pdf) (PDF). Right? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1203 "2014-01-16T23:08:46Z")
And where are the angry headlines about the evil, greedy Medicare program? Also, Economics 101: the ability to set prices is the ability to ration. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1204 "2014-01-16T23:12:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And where are the angry headlines about the evil, greedy Medicare program? > > Also, Economics 101: the ability to set prices is the ability to ration. OK, let’s set some ground rules; do you believe rationing of health care is a good thing or a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1205 "2014-01-16T23:16:13Z")
A necessary evil, IF we are transparent about doing it. It’s just plain evil if we claim to be giving everyone everything they need when we’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1206 "2014-01-16T23:24:02Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A necessary evil, IF we are transparent about doing it. It’s just plain evil if we claim to be giving everyone everything they need when we’re not. I’m sure you will come back here with a cite if anyone ever makes that claim. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1207 "2014-01-17T08:17:55Z")
YOu know what’s interesting? Democrats keep on claiming that the law needs fixing, but haven’t brought any bills to the floor of the Senate to fix the law. Only Republicans have been voting on, and passing, bills to fix it. The White House’s excuse on the latest two bills is particularly rich: it would create “reporting burdens” for the administration. Funny, businesses constantly complain about such burdens and the administration thinks they can handle it just fine. > **[House passes measure requiring O-Care updates; 33 Dems defect](https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/votes/195678-33-dems-help-house-pass-bill-requiring-weekly-obamacare-updates/)** > > The second House vote in as many weeks showing Dem discomfort with healthcare oversight. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1208 "2014-01-17T08:53:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > YOu know what’s interesting? Democrats keep on claiming that the law needs fixing, but haven’t brought any bills to the floor of the Senate to fix the law. Only Republicans have been voting on, and passing, bills to fix it. > > The White House’s excuse on the latest two bills is particularly rich: it would create “reporting burdens” for the administration. Funny, businesses constantly complain about such burdens and the administration thinks they can handle it just fine. > > [http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/votes/195678-33-dems-help-house-pass-bill-requiring-weekly-obamacare-updates](http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/votes/195678-33-dems-help-house-pass-bill-requiring-weekly-obamacare-updates) You didn’t understand the article you posted. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1209 "2014-01-17T09:17:43Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You didn’t understand the article you posted. I was also going to say that - but what’s the point? We have a radio station here, that advertises “only hear the good stuff” Adaher only sees what he wants to see, regardless of the facts, so what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1210 "2014-01-17T12:47:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > YOu know what’s interesting? Democrats keep on claiming that the law needs fixing, but haven’t brought any bills to the floor of the Senate to fix the law. Only Republicans have been voting on, and passing, bills to fix it. > > The White House’s excuse on the latest two bills is particularly rich: it would create “reporting burdens” for the administration. Funny, businesses constantly complain about such burdens and the administration thinks they can handle it just fine. > > [http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/votes/195678-33-dems-help-house-pass-bill-requiring-weekly-obamacare-updates](http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/votes/195678-33-dems-help-house-pass-bill-requiring-weekly-obamacare-updates) Bullshit - the Dems passed a bill to fix the volunteer firefighter problem. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1211 "2014-01-17T13:09:13Z")
There are now [ten million](http://obamacaresignups.net/spreadsheet) people with insurance under the ACA who wouldn’t otherwise have it. As that number grows, throwing them back under the bus is not going to be politically palatable. Time for the Republicans to stop with the temper tantrums, they lost and aren’t going to scuttle this any more than they can Social Security or Medicare. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1212 "2014-01-17T14:09:09Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > There are now [ten million](http://obamacaresignups.net/spreadsheet) people with insurance under the ACA who wouldn’t otherwise have it. As that number grows, throwing them back under the bus is not going to be politically palatable. Time for the Republicans to stop with the temper tantrums, they lost and aren’t going to scuttle this any more than they can Social Security or Medicare. They haven’t haven’t even stopped trying to scuttle Social Security or Medicare. There are a few things that Republicans are better at than Democrats – perseverance is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1213 "2014-01-17T14:14:13Z")
This thread is a year old, today. I think we can safely say that, for the most part, opinions are unchanged. If you supported ACA on 1-17-2013, you support it on 1-17-2014. If you were against it then, you’re still against it now. Anybody here have an opinion change w/in the previous year from “For” to “Against” (or vice versa)? ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1214 "2014-01-17T15:01:31Z")
^^^^^ Yeah, this thread evolved into this board’s central hub for ACA discussion in a lot of ways, which I’m perfectly happy with. I too would be interested to see whether anybody has changed their positions over the past year. Going back to **BobLibDem’s** post, I honestly don’t see how ACA repeal would even be _possible_ at this point. I mean, there are just far too many gears that have already been set into motion that would make repeal hugely untenable if not outright impossible. Think about it, there’s been hundreds of millions of dollars invested into the R&D of the federal exchange website with just as much $$$ also flowing to the states who opted to create their own marketplaces. There have been thousands of pages of regulations that have been issued in order to define and implement the law itself. Medicaid has finally been expanded. There are now national multi-million dollar ad campaigns that are touting the law’s benefits and driving individuals to enroll, and these campaigns are not only being driven by government agencies but also by the insurers _themselves_ who have a huge financial stake in making sure that the ACA is successful. Perhaps most of all, ten million people are insured today who otherwise wouldn’t have been without the ACA. You can’t just magically make all of that go away with a repeal proposal. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1215 "2014-01-17T16:40:10Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > You can’t just magically make all of that go away with a repeal proposal. True, but a lesser change could do it. Washington State reform in the 90s was [derailed](http://www.ahipcoverage.com/2013/11/04/lessons-learned-washington-states-1993-experiment-with-health-insurance-reforms/) a few years later when the purchase mandate was removed. Looking at that, it is easy to understand the “just get rid of the mandate” comments in this thread. It is code for killing the ACA. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1216 "2014-01-17T16:53:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So what happens when the first elderly patient is denied the drug or treatment? It’s off the the Death Panel with him, where the government will decide whether his life is worth saving, of course. No, seriously, he’s denied. So what? Private insurance denies treatments or drugs too. Of course it does. It can’t just allow any treatment or drug. As you must admitted, rationing is necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1217 "2014-01-17T17:46:03Z")
If the GOP does not like limiting care, are they proposing unlimited care? Where’s the money for that going to come from? The GOP push[sup]1[/sup] to keep young people from signing up for health insurance brings up the question of what is their alternative to being insured? Can the GOP guarantee each young person that does not sign up for Obamacare that they will never get sick, old or injured? Does the GOP have a warehouse full of oil portraits that age in place of the “young immortals” who reject Obamacare based on GOP advice? I’m just asking questions here. 😉 [sup]1[/sup] The Independent Diction Review Board has told me I’ve used up my allotment of the words “propaganda” and “lies” for this thread, and all variants thereof. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1218 "2014-01-17T18:23:50Z")
> [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > … …The GOP push[sup]1[/sup] to keep young people from signing up for health insurance brings up the question of what is their alternative to being insured? … The magic powers of the free market will determine life and death. If you generate enough income to pay for fixing whatever breaks, you can live forever! ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1219 "2014-01-17T20:25:28Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Private insurance denies treatments or drugs too. Of course it does. His point is that when private insurance does it, it is wholesome and good because it is private insurance. When Medicare does it, it is intrinsically evil because anything run by the government is by definition evil. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1220 "2014-01-18T14:49:04Z")
For whoever the hell it was gleefully explaining to us that a bit of slop in the wording of the state exchange section of the law would destroy it all: [Not.](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/15/1269933/-Last-gasp-legal-challenge-to-Obamacare-rejected?detail=hide) > [@](#): > > “Plaintiffs’ proposed construction in this case—that tax credits are available only for those purchasing insurance from state-run Exchanges—runs counter to this central purpose of the ACA: to provide affordable health care to virtually all Americans,” Friedman wrote in a 39-page decision. “Such an interpretation would violate the basic rule of statutory construction that a court must interpret a statute in light of its history and purpose.” > His reasoning? The federal exchanges—which the Obama administration is constructing for 34 states that declined to build their own—“would have no customers, and no purpose” if the challengers’ logic were adopted. > > “In other words, even where a state does not actually establish an Exchange, the federal government can create ‘an Exchange established by the State under [42 U.S.C. § 18031]’ on behalf of that state,” Friedman wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1221 "2014-01-19T16:06:46Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > There are now [ten million](http://obamacaresignups.net/spreadsheet) people with insurance under the ACA who wouldn’t otherwise have it. As that number grows, throwing them back under the bus is not going to be politically palatable. Time for the Republicans to stop with the temper tantrums, they lost and aren’t going to scuttle this any more than they can Social Security or Medicare. Seems this number is well above the 6 million [White House is claiming](http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/01/13/obamacare-tallies-6-million-enrollees-so-far-white-house-says-2). And their claim of 6 million earned 3 Pinoccios from the [Washington Post Fact Checker](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/01/16/warning-ignore-claims-that-3-9-million-people-signed-up-for-medicaid-because-of-obamacare/) which criticizes including 3.9 million Medicaid enrollments in that 6 million number. The Wall Street Journal (in an [article](http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304149404579326992266662838%3Fmod=%3C%25mst.param%28LINKMODPREFIX%29) behind a paywall) levies the criticism that many of those enrolled were previously insured. Claiming all Obamacare enrollees as persons who previously did not have coverage (or were unable to get coverage) is not a fair assumption. [A Forbes article](http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/01/18/coverage-expansion-fail-less-than-one-third-of-obamacare-exchange-enrollees-were-previously-uninsured/) describing the WSJ report detail surveys of persons enrolled in marketplace plans indicating less than one third were previously uninsured. Supporters want to promote higher numbers. Detractors want to disparage any reports of success. Not dealing honestly with the numbers does no one any favors in trying to make an informed opinion about how enrollment is proceeding. Given that expanding coverage to the previously uninsured and uninsurable was a goal of the PPACA then getting an honest before-and-after picture would be helpful. Damn hard to find a neutral “cameraman” to take that snapshot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=62)