# What is your ongoing opinion of the Affordable Care Act? (Title Edited) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561 "2013-01-17T23:21:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1282 "2014-01-26T18:59:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No one should have been forced out of their insurance into Medicaid. The fact that it happened at all=fail. Yes, some people should be forced out of their insurance into Medicaid, if their insurance was a sham. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1283 "2014-01-26T21:50:28Z")
Medicaid, according to studies, is inadequate insurance. Or, if you will, a sham. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1284 "2014-01-26T23:05:58Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Medicaid, according to studies, is inadequate insurance. Or, if you will, a sham. What studies? Everybody I know on Medicaid is bloody happy to have it, because the alternative is _nothing_, which is what you seem to be trying to move us back to. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1285 "2014-01-26T23:24:49Z")
No time to edit, will come back later. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1286 "2014-01-26T23:25:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Medicaid, according to studies, is inadequate insurance. Or, if you will, a sham. That’s laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1287 "2014-01-26T23:57:32Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > Everybody I know on Medicaid is bloody happy to have it, because the alternative is _nothing_, which is what you seem to be trying to move us back to. I would like a bigger, better house. Therefore I am going to knock down my current house despite having no other place to live, because that somehow makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1288 "2014-01-26T23:57:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Medicaid, according to studies, is inadequate insurance. Or, if you will, a sham. Who ran these studies? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1289 "2014-01-27T00:00:33Z")
[http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publications/legislative/being-medicaid-better-having-no-insurance-all](http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publications/legislative/being-medicaid-better-having-no-insurance-all) [http://www.americansurgical.info/abstracts/2010/18.cgi](http://www.americansurgical.info/abstracts/2010/18.cgi) The 2003 study showed that Medicaid patients were more likely to die in surgery than those with no insurance at all. The more recent Oregon study should be known to all of you, and it showed no improved health outcomes for Medicaid patients. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1290 "2014-01-27T02:19:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Medicaid increases mean nothing either, as the Posts’ Factcheck found: > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/01/16/warning-ignore-claims-that-3-9-million-people-signed-up-for-medicaid-because-of-obamacare/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/01/16/warning-ignore-claims-that-3-9-million-people-signed-up-for-medicaid-because-of-obamacare/) That article says no such thing. It says we don’t know the numbers, which is exactly what I’ve said all along. You, on the other hand, keep pulling numbers out of whatever hole your “Romney Won” theory came from. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1291 "2014-01-27T04:09:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > [Page Not Found » Search » Washington Policy Center](http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publications/legislative/being-medicaid-better-having-no-insurance-all) > > [http://www.americansurgical.info/abstracts/2010/18.cgi](http://www.americansurgical.info/abstracts/2010/18.cgi) > > The 2003 study showed that Medicaid patients were more likely to die in surgery than those with no insurance at all. > > The more recent Oregon study should be known to all of you, and it showed no improved health outcomes for Medicaid patients. From your first link: > [@](#): > > The Medicaid group had no improvement in the important objective measurements of blood sugar levels, blood pressure and cholesterol levels. The study did find that vaguely defined “mental health” did improve, however this was done via subjective telephone interviews, not objective clinical data. For those few people requiring prolonged medical and hospital treatment, having Medicaid did improve their financial status because their medical bills were covered by federal and Oregon taxpayers. This is not particularly surprising considering things such as blood sugar, blood pressure, and cholesterol levels are affected often by factors besides medical coverage such as heredity and diet. OTOH, your article helpfully points out that Medicaid coverage prevents bankruptcy for people facing a catastrophic illness or injury. And it is true that Medicaid coverage is often highly inadequate. That just gives an argument for expanding Medicaid to include more doctors to ensure faster care. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1292 "2014-01-27T04:14:26Z")
And again, the idea that the cancelled plans were “sham insurance” is yet more Democratic misinformation. The government decided what constituted acceptable insurance and nearly half of all plans did not qualify. Who knew that so many insured Americans didn’t have good insurance? Heck, who knew that many UHC systems in the industrialized world were inadequate? Are there any foreigners here who have to pay a co-pay for preventive services? If so, you’re insurance is inadequate according to our government. Strangely, lack of access to tertiary care centers is not considered inadequate by our government. You’d think the whole process was arbitrary and politically motivated. What I don’t get is why so many Dopers just buy the talking points. If you showed the folks in power as much skepticism as you show fellow posters some ignorance might actually get fought. Instead, many of you spread it by mouthing those talking points. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1293 "2014-01-27T04:19:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > [Page Not Found » Search » Washington Policy Center](http://www.washingtonpolicy.org/publications/legislative/being-medicaid-better-having-no-insurance-all) > > [http://www.americansurgical.info/abstracts/2010/18.cgi](http://www.americansurgical.info/abstracts/2010/18.cgi) > > The 2003 study showed that Medicaid patients were more likely to die in surgery than those with no insurance at all. > > The more recent Oregon study should be known to all of you, and it showed no improved health outcomes for Medicaid patients. 😕 [http://oregonhealthstudy.org/for-participants/findings/](http://oregonhealthstudy.org/for-participants/findings/) > [@](#): > > Some highlights: > Overall Health > > Those who received OHP reported that they were healthier; 25 percent said that they were in “excellent” health. > Preventive Care > > OHP beneficiaries were 20 percent more likely to get cholesterol monitoring, 35 percent more likely to use outpatient care, and 60 percent more likely to get mammograms. > Access to Care > > OHP beneficiaries were 55 percent more likely to report having a doctor they see regularly and 70 percent more likely to report they had an office or clinic for care. > Financial Security > > OHP beneficiaries were 40 percent less likely to borrow money or avoid paying other bills because of high medical expenses. They were 25 percent less likely to have unpaid medical bills Not coincidentally, people on Medicaid were. Oh, wait, it is adaher, the universe once again is conspiring against. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1294 "2014-01-27T04:25:26Z")
GIGO, the study says that people with Medicaid see more doctors and are less likely to have trouble paying medical bills. Neither of those indicators has anything to do with health. Are Medicaid patients healthier than patients with no insurance at all? No. Not that your arguments aren’t valid about the value of Medicaid, but let’s not call it health insurance, because it’s not. Call it financial insurance if you want. If Medicaid is “health care” then quack doctors also give health care, since they improve patients’ piece of mind. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1295 "2014-01-27T04:32:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > GIGO, the study says that people with Medicaid see more doctors and are less likely to have trouble paying medical bills. Neither of those indicators has anything to do with health. > > Are Medicaid patients healthier than patients with no insurance at all? No. > > Not that your arguments aren’t valid about the value of Medicaid, but let’s not call it health insurance, because it’s not. Call it financial insurance if you want. > > If Medicaid is “health care” then quack doctors also give health care, since they improve patients’ piece of mind. “Neither of those indicators has anything to do with health.” :rolleyes: Again: > [@](#): > > Those who received OHP reported that they were healthier; 25 percent said that they were in “excellent” health. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1296 "2014-01-27T04:41:01Z")
Again, alternative health care practitioners achieve similar results. Again, how easily skepticism is thrown aside here. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1297 "2014-01-27T04:45:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Again, alternative health care practitioners achieve similar results. Again, how easily skepticism is thrown aside here. And that would be a useful point, if we were looking at alternative health care. Once again, that is not what the Oregon study reports. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1298 "2014-01-27T04:47:52Z")
You’re missing the point. The Oregon study reports no difference in actual health. rather, it measures better “well being”, a result which alternative doctors have used for centuries to justify their unscientific approach. Or, think of it like placebos. Medicaid has a placebo effect. Actually, less of a placebo effect than placebos. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1299 "2014-01-27T04:57:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You’re missing the point. The Oregon study reports no difference in actual health. rather, it measures better “well being”, a result which alternative doctors have used for centuries to justify their unscientific approach. > > Or, think of it like placebos. Medicaid has a placebo effect. Actually, less of a placebo effect than placebos. Don’t think so, and let us remember that you mentioned the study, you are indeed cherry picking now as it does not confirm what you told us. Just like any good pseudo-scientist doctor would do. And the financial part of it has been one of the important items on why insurance is good to have. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1300 "2014-01-27T05:14:57Z")
But the main selling point is health. If health insurance doesn’t improve health outcomes, then there’s an easy way to avoid the financial risk: don’t purchase health care. I know I don’t use health care much. Despite this being the 21st century, health care still kills an astonishing number of people. I get my checkups and I would go if I had a real problem amenable to a medical solution, but I shake my head at people who go to emergency rooms with the sniffles or sprains. This is why catastrophic-only plans are quite adequate and quite legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561/1301 "2014-01-27T05:19:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > But the main selling point is health. If health insurance doesn’t improve health outcomes, then there’s an easy way to avoid the financial risk: don’t purchase health care. :rolleyes: [http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1212321#Discussion](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1212321#Discussion) > [@](#): > > Conclusions > > This randomized, controlled study showed that Medicaid coverage generated no significant improvements in measured physical health outcomes in the first 2 years, but it did increase use of health care services, raise rates of diabetes detection and management, lower rates of depression, **and reduce financial strain.** The key to me is that it was limited to two years, as the study makers report, it is not long enough to find differences but they do remark that the long term benefits are also important and bound to make a difference in the future. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-your-ongoing-opinion-of-the-affordable-care-act-title-edited/647561.md?page=66)